| MG Pilot |
How many of you are planning on doing this yourselves @ 15,000 miles??? As far as the level of difficulty goes, it looks like it is the equivalent to change the tranny fluid on a manual. IOW, it looks like you need to fill the differential fluid through the same hole you drained it from...
Any thoughts??? |
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| MG Pilot |
What, no responses???
What are people planning on doing??? |
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| N_Jay |
First change at the dealer.
After that it will depend on how the dealer does with service prices. |
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| xyzzy |
I will definitely be doing it myself. Oddly enough it looks exactly like the same procedure that I follow on my Cub Cadet lawn tractor. I didn't pay attention to what fluid they are calling for there. If it's a hypoid gear oil, I'll be putting Mobil 1 synthetic hypoid in.
Chris |
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| N_Jay |
Per Honda, only use Honda VTM Fluid.
Remember this stuff is gear oil, wet clutch fluid, hydrolic system fluid, and probably a few other things at the same time. |
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| xyzzy |
Got it. Thanks for the reply. As I said, I haven't even looked to see what they were calling for. Makes sense that it would be something odd given their unique 4WD system. I'll probably just stick with the Honda fluid then. Unless of course I buy the Honda stuff and it just states that it's regular old hypoid gear oil on the side.
Thanks,
Chris |
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| MG Pilot |
I agree with Chris...if the Honda VTM is just plain old gear fluid, I'm switching to Mobil1 syn lube as well.
BTW, what are you guys gonna use to get the fluid back in the hole??? Do you guys have some sort of pump or something??? |
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| N_Jay |
1. It may be a common fluid, (with a different name) but it is NOT just gear oil. The fact that wet clutches run in it tells me that.
2. Get a new (clean) gear oil pump. They are only about $5 |
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| tibbitts |
Speaking as someone who hates to pay anyone to do anything for me if there is even a remote chance I can do it myself, I am going to let Honda do it. My reason is simple. The VTM is still proving itself as far as I am concerned. The last thing I want is for it to fail, and have Honda tell me, that it is my fault since I failed to follow their recommendations. I will let them do the change and keep a copy of the receipt in my folder along with all the other receipts.
A few years down the road, I may do it myself, but not the first one. |
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| MG Pilot |
I just got off the phone with my local Honda dealer who did not know **** as usual. So, I called over to Acura and they told me that the Honda/Acura fluid have some special additives in the fluid. He also told me that since the Pilot uses electromagnetic clutches, anything other than the Honda fluid will end up ruing your differential...
BTW, I forget the diagram in the manual...Do you drain and fill through the same hole??? Or, is the fill hole higher than the drain hole??? In think the latter...
Can anyone confirm the placement of the holes??? |
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| N_Jay |
Drain on the bottom, and fill on the side.
As for the "Special Additives", I think that is another wasy to say "I don't know".
Maybe the dealer was being more truthfull than Honda? :)
What, ONLY special additives, not a special base? :2: |
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| MG Pilot |
Good this jobs looks pretty easy...I'll go buy a gear lube pump for a few buck and do it myself!!!
Does anyone know what the oil capacity of the differential case is??? I know, I could look in the manual, but I'm at work... |
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| MG Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Drain on the bottom, and fill on the side.
Both holes actually face the rear of the Pilot. The drain plug is directly below the fill hole. You'll probably want to remove the spare when you do this do give yourself some more room to operate. BTW, you don't need any particular socket to do this...you simply use the square end of your 1/2" ratchet to loosen and tighten the drain plugs... |
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| lxblack |
My friend has MDX. His car didn't require VTM service until 30K. They wanted $100 for this service.
Why does Honda make us do this service at 15K? Was something wrong with MDX's schedule? |
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| xyzzy |
quote:
Originally posted by lxblack
My friend has MDX. His car didn't require VTM service until 30K. They wanted $100 for this service.
Why does Honda make us do this service at 15K? Was something wrong with MDX's schedule?
I'm sure it's just the difference between the normal (30k) and severe (15k) schedule.
Chris |
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| MG Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by lxblack
My friend has MDX. His car didn't require VTM service until 30K. They wanted $100 for this service.
Why does Honda make us do this service at 15K? Was something wrong with MDX's schedule?
Under "normal" conditions, the Pilot requires the VTM fluid change at 15,000...30,000...and then not till 60,000 miles. There is a footnote that states that it needs to be initially changed at 15,000 for proper break-in of the differential...
$100 huh??? That's a lot of mouse milk...:2:
...I'll definitely be doing this on my own |
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| N_Jay |
I would guess that they have found some Break-in issue.
I would also guess that the MDX schedule has been updated. |
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| davemac |
| I'll have to double check my manual. I believe my salesman told me VTM to be changed at 7500 miles. Per salesman- New England is categorized as "severe conditions" presumably due to temp swings, and thus should follow the "severe" manintenance schedule in manual- which also included engine oil change at 3750.:confused: |
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| lxblack |
| I don't think it is a difference of severe or normal schedule difference... I don't know what interval the 03 MDX would have but his 02 MDX has 30K schedule interval (normal driving), and Pilot has 15K schedule interval (normal driving). |
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| xyzzy |
quote:
Originally posted by davemac
I'll have to double check my manual. I believe my salesman told me VTM to be changed at 7500 miles. Per salesman- New England is categorized as "severe conditions" presumably due to temp swings, and thus should follow the "severe" manintenance schedule in manual- which also included engine oil change at 3750.:confused:
Just got home and checked the manual. There is a footnote next to the VTM listing that states that you should only follow the severe schedule for the VTM fluid change if you off-road, or towing, or primarily stop-and-go driving. Temperature and dust conditions that would cause you to follow the severe schedule for other components, don't apply to the VTM change schedule. So unless you are in one of the three categories above, follow the normal schedule for VTM.
Chris |
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| TheWorm |
Normal:
7.5k, 30k, 60k, 90k...and every 30k thereafter
Severe:
7.5k, 15k, 30k, 45k, 60k...and every 15k thereafter |
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| srpbep |
Worm is right, MDX 1st change is at 7,500 vs Pilot at 15,000. After that, sounds like they are both the same.
Why the difference when they are same unit? Guess one would have to ask Honda [good luck getting an answer that would make any sense]. |
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| lxblack |
Has anyone done this service DIY?
If not, what did the dealers charge for this service?
Is this gonna burn a hole in my wallet? |
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| srpbep |
Some MDX owners have done this themselves (visit the MDX sister site). Apparently it is a very easy procedure:
** You need the following parts:
** 1 gallon of Honda VTM fluid (approx. $20,00)
** Fill bolt crush washer.
** Drain bolt crush washer.
The process is:
** Remove fill bolt.
** Remove drain bolt and let drain.
** Reinstall drain bolt (use new new crush washer).
** Refill the rear end (you do need a pump which is not expensive).
** Reinstall the fill bolt (use new crush washer).
** You are done.
Note: Some suggest dropping the spare tire which improves access to the rear end.
I had mine done by the dealer at 6 month service. As I remember, the cost was approx. $50.00 (fluid costs $20.00, rest was labor). |
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| lxblack |
Thanks;
That sounds like something a weekend mechanic can do easily.
You didn't say how to fill? When do I stop filling? Until it starts to spill over?
My friend paid $100 at his dealer, so you got a good deal. |
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| srpbep |
quote:
lxblack wrote:
Thanks;
That sounds like something a weekend mechanic can do easily.
You didn't say how to fill? When do I stop filling? Until it starts to spill over?
My friend paid $100 at his dealer, so you got a good deal.
Filling instructions:
** Replace drain bolt (with new crush washer).
** Pump new VTM fluid into fill hole until it is full (guess you know this when the fluid starts to run out). The pump is a standard fluid pump available from auto parts stores. Additionally, I believe that you can buy them from Honda (their mechanics need them too).
** Replace fill bolt (with new crush washer).
The biggest concern that I would see is maintaining adequate records to document that you have indeed performed this maintenance service.
Note: Only use Honda VTM Fluid -- do NOT use conventional differential lube -- this is NOT a conventional differential. |
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| davemac |
| Wonder if Tim carries crush washers/ pumps??? |
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| srpbep |
Last I heard, Tim doesn't want to [or simply can't] ship the VTM fluild. Since you have to buy it from the local dealer, buy the crush washers there as well (they are really inexpensive). I think the pair have a total cost under $3.00.
If anyone has conflicting info (including Mr. Tim), please jump in here. |
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| srpbep |
I had stated earlier that I had paid $50.00 for the VTM fluid change.
quote:
lxblack wrote the following in response:
... My friend paid $100 at his dealer, so you got a good deal.
lxblack,
I don't think I got a good price, I think your friend got charged a pretty hefty amount for a very simple procedure. The procedure is described in the posts above. The parts cost is $22-$23 [1 gallon of VTM fluid and pair of crush washers]. Thus your friend got charged 1+ hours of labor. I suspect that the whole procedure takes 0.5 hours MAX if that is all you are going to do. I've gotta believe that everyone having the VTM fluid changed is also having other work done as well [like an Oil Change for example]. Thus, the vehicle is already up on the rack and a mechanic should be able to the VTM in 0.25 hrs. in his sleep. In my case, that is exactly what happened, I had the oil changed and the VTM fluid changed. The total cost for BOTH was $75.00 OTD.
Anyone who disagrees, please sound off ..... |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
Last I heard, Tim doesn't want to [or simply can't] ship the VTM fluild. Since you have to buy it from the local dealer, buy the crush washers there as well (they are really inexpensive). I think the pair have a total cost under $3.00.
If anyone has conflicting info (including Mr. Tim), please jump in here.
I think that's right...and I think it was b/c the fluid's considered a haz mat so can't be shipped cost effectively to us.
IIRC he does have the washers and pumps. |
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| xyzzy |
The last time I talked with Tim I think he was in the process of identifying someone who could supply the appropriate packaging material, but it almost sounded as if it was too much of a pain to deal with (understandable).
Chris |
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| Mkell |
When are you changing VTM fluid? Is anyone in a urban/suburban area with a mix of stop and go and occaisional highway driving getting an early VTM fluid change??
Just wanted to refresh this topic. I just had my first oil change at about 5K. It was free at the dealership. As I was leaving I saw the service rep and he said that I needed to bring in the Pilot for a VTM fluid change at 8,100 miles because driving around my area is urban stop and go and therefore falls under the severe schedule. Being in a hurry, I didn't have time to ask where in the world that number came from - maybe it's meant to be coordinated with the next oil change at 3,000 miles??? I don't know. Anyway, he also said something about MDXs really needing the change early and so the Pilot should too. Is anyone in a urban/suburban area with a mix of stop and go and occaisional highway driving getting an early VTM fluid change?? |
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| KEPILOT |
MKell :
I recently moved to Farmington, NM. According to the local Handa dealer, Farmington driving is considered as a severe condition due to high eleveation ( 5700 ft ) and dusty air. He wants me to change oil every 3750-5000 miles and VTM oil every 7500-8000 miles. Your dealer and my dealer are in sink.
Let me know, if you learn any thing new on this topic.
KE |
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| MG Pilot |
Don't buy into the hype...
The manual states that it does not need to be done till 15k. If it were up to the dealers, every type of driving, no matter what the conditions, would be classified as severe. I am planning on waiting till 15k for my first VTM fluid change. BTW, I am planning on doing this myself. The parts guys at the local Acura dealer gave my the fluid pump for free. |
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| Mkell |
| This reminds me of the discussion about the first engine oil change. It's the age old questions -- Who is really operating under severe conditions? While stop and go driving is considered one of the severe criteria, do you follow the severe schedule if you do 1/2 stop and go and 1/2 highway driving? I probably will do what I did for the first oil change - split the difference and get vtm changed at 10K. But I must admit, it does bother me a bit that the MDX regular schedule vtm fluid change has the first change at 7,500. |
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| gksmith |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
Filling instructions:
.
.
.
** Pump new VTM fluid into fill hole until it is full (guess you know this when the fluid starts to run out). .
.
.
My boss has a story about his daughter's Ford something where the service mechanic filled the transmission up with fluid until it ran out the service hole. This later caused all the tranny seals to blow about 2 later because he added about 2qrts too much.
His daugher thought she'd run over an animal due to the amount of red liquid on the garage floor. |
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| tibbitts |
| Following up on MG Pilot, I specifically asked my service rep about this when I had my first oil change at 3.7K. I said, "If we are following the severe schedule, shouldn't we change out the differential fluid next time at 7.5K. He didn't think so. He did not feel that the stop and go that puts engines in the severe category has the sam effect on the differential. He said we would wait until 15k. |
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| Spartanman |
| Severe v. Normal. When in doubt, split the difference. It can't hurt. |
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| davemac |
Ok, just completed DIY differential fluid change (at 15K). Picked up 1 gallon Honda fluid ($23), 2 crush washers, and a pump that screws onto the cap of the 1 gallon container (for $3 at a local auto parts place). Pretty simple job, no need to remove spare tire. As stated earlier in this post, just use the end of a 3/8" ratchet (or socket extension).
Helpful hints:
1. Note that the crush washers are different size for the top and bottom plug. Make sure dealer doesn't give you two of the same (like mine did).
2. When placing oil catch pan underneath, realize that this stuff "shoots" out pretty good (about 8-10 inches) place pan accordingly.
3. Stuff takes a while to totally drain (else this would be about a 10 minute job)
The bottom plug has a magnetic tip. Be sure to remove any metal filings from it before reinstalling. While my oil looked extremely clean, I did note some filings on the plug (which presumably is why oil is to be changed). |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by KEPILOT
MKell :
I recently moved to Farmington, NM. According to the local Handa dealer, Farmington driving is considered as a severe condition due to high eleveation ( 5700 ft ) and dusty air. He wants me to change oil every 3750-5000 miles and VTM oil every 7500-8000 miles. Your dealer and my dealer are in sink.
Let me know, if you learn any thing new on this topic.
KE
Me thinks your dealer is trying to drum up more business. So what if Farmington is at 5700 ft? Dusty? I don't think so Tim!
In defense of the Farmington dealer, of all the dealers I contacted in Colorado and the surroundiing states, he offered the best discount. I didn't buy mine there as it was just a little farther than I wanted to drive for "a deal".
rod |
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| lxblack |
thanks for the tip, as I am looking to do it myself. Some questions.
Do we need any special wrench to undo the plugs or regular box wrench works o.k.?
How much oil did it take?
We need crush washers again? Honda must love crush washers...
did you jack up the car to get all the oil out?
Please advise.
Dan |
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| davemac |
quote:
Originally posted by lxblack
thanks for the tip, as I am looking to do it myself. Some questions.
Do we need any special wrench to undo the plugs or regular box wrench works o.k.?
How much oil did it take?
We need crush washers again? Honda must love crush washers...
did you jack up the car to get all the oil out?
Please advise.
Dan
-no box wrench, you use the 3/8" drive of a ratchet (in other words...use a standard ratchet with NO socket on it) Both plugs are easily seen on the center of the differential when looking underneath, from the rear end of the vehicle.
- capacity is right around 3 quarts, so you won't use the entire gallon of fluid, with car level, you fill the top hole until it starts flowing back out
-as the oil plugs are on the rear, I did use a floor jack to slightly lift the front end of the vehicle (once the plugs were removed), so as to aid the exit flow of oil |
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| lxblack |
thanks Davemac
that helps
Wow, that's a lot of oil, that will get expensive if we have to do it often? when is the next scheduled exchange? |
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| davemac |
quote:
Originally posted by lxblack
thanks Davemac
that helps
Wow, that's a lot of oil, that will get expensive if we have to do it often? when is the next scheduled exchange?
You probably want to check the manual, but I believe it was 30k then 60k (unless "severe" schedule is being followed) |
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| Roundy |
Thanks davemac! I'm happy to hear that this is as easy as it sounds. As for the dealers, I say stay away from them as much as possible. I'm a little bummed that I have to visit a dealer to get this fluid. Read your manual and stick with the good advice here. Just living in a certain area does NOT cause you to be a "severe" driver. How do you drive? You know if you are hard on cars or not. With engineering and high-tech fluids available today, if you follow the normal schedule you can expect years and years of trouble-free motoring with your Honda. I've got about 1,000 miles to go before my first diff fluid change. More time on the garage floor! Oh boy!
Roundy |
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| Roundy |
| Wow, was that easy! Anybody who is "frightened" about doing this, let me tell you that it's easier than an engine oil change! The facts presented here are 100% correct. And no, you don't need to do anything to the spare. The fluid pumps are cheap and easy to buy at any parts store. The longest part of the procedure is waiting for all the old VTM-4 fluid to drain. No way I'd ever pay a dealer to do that job. |
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| colorider |
I changed my VTM fluid this morning (15K mile maintenance) and as other have mentioned - it's a piece of cake to do.
It takes quite a while to drain, but very little mess - far less than an oil change.
:) |
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| davemac |
quote:
Originally posted by colorider
[It takes quite a while to drain, but very little mess - far less than an oil change.
:) [/B]
The second time I did mine, I drove the front wheels onto a couple 2x10's which seemed to speed things up a little, since the oil drains towards the rear. |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by davemac
The second time I did mine, I drove the front wheels onto a couple 2x10's which seemed to speed things up a little, since the oil drains towards the rear.
Good for draining, but what about the fluid level reading? It would give you a full reading, when it needs a little more to top up. Just wondering.... |
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| colorider |
Good idea on the 2x10's davemac!! Sunday Rider, it would be easy just to roll the Pilot back off the board after draining.
I may try this sesuqnce next time.
Thanks! |
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| davemac |
quote:
Originally posted by Sunday Rider
Good for draining, but what about the fluid level reading? It would give you a full reading, when it needs a little more to top up. Just wondering....
As Colorider said, I just pushed the Pilot off the boards b4 refilling. Actually did the procedure while in the garage. |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by davemac
As Colorider said, I just pushed the Pilot off the boards b4 refilling. Actually did the procedure while in the garage.
Great idea, I will try next time. |
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| HurricaneHusker |
| Any need to use a torque wrench on the plugs? Does Honda even refrence torque values for these plugs? |
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| john802 |
quote:
Originally posted by davemac
As Colorider said, I just pushed the Pilot off the boards b4 refilling. Actually did the procedure while in the garage.
After draining the rear differential fluid, make sure you add a quart of new VTM4 fluid before pushing the pilot from the ramp. The reason for this is, you will damage the internal mechanism of the VTM4 if you spin the tire and the differential is dry. |
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| seadog |
quote:
Originally posted by john802
After draining the rear differential fluid, make sure you add a quart of new VTM4 fluid before pushing the pilot from the ramp. The reason for this is, you will damage the internal mechanism of the VTM4 if you spin the tire and the differential is dry.
Really? I doubt the differential is "dry" just by draining and I doubt moving one or a couple of revolutions will cause any damage. Course, that's just flying by the seat. Where did you come by this information? |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by seadog
Really? I doubt the differential is "dry" just by draining and I doubt moving one or a couple of revolutions will cause any damage. Course, that's just flying by the seat. Where did you come by this information?
I second Seadog.
And ask the same question. |
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| kemosabe |
quote:
Originally posted by HurricaneHusker
Any need to use a torque wrench on the plugs? Does Honda even refrence torque values for these plugs?
The 2003 Service Manual gives these values for the two plugs: 47 N-m / 4.8 kgf-m / 35 lbf-ft |
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| smurray |
| I just want to make sure I've got the right bolts before I DIY the VTM4 fluid change. Someone please let me know if I'm right. Thanks. |
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| supo |
Decided to change the VTM4 fluid today even though I have clocked only 6,300 miles, but have had the car for just over a year.
Fluid was still cherry red and clear with no burnt smell. The only thing I noticed was a fair amount of metal filings on the drain bolt magnet. The pics below showed what I was able to take off the magnet using a white paper towel. The following fuzzy closeup pic does show quite an amount of metal filings, but I did not come across any large flakes or chunks of metal, just the minute filings.
As before the drain and fill, the differential is smooth and quiet with no binding or anything that would cause me concern.
Boy, I sure hope that the amount of metal filings is what one would consider normal :13: |
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| supo |
here is a close up
(for the sake of reference, the length of the black smudge is about the same length as the drain plug magnet)
I plan on changing the fluid again in about a year just to see if the amount of filings is reduced. Since I am doing it myself, its only $23 for the VTM4 fluid. Cheap insurance. |
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| clydecat |
Changed my Differential fluid today, car has 7,820 miles. $23 for fluid, $3 for two crush washers.
My magnet had about the same amount of black smudge on it.
This job was a very easy job!
Clyde |
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| ndusyn |
| Anyone have any thoughts on making sure the differential fluid is warm before changing? With most fluid changes (especailly engine oil changes), I always make sure it's warmed up to allow for a more complete fluid/contaminants drain :8: |
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| wassallj |
| When I took my Pilot in for the 15k service they did not change the differential fluid. I called and asked why and they said Honda had determined it did not need to be changed that often. I just had it in for 30k service and they did not change it again. I called and they said there is no need to change it. Anyone else here this from their dealer? |
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| pilotnc |
I get a kick out of the usage of "Severe Duty" by the mfg's. There was a time when all Japanese Mfg's classified North America as "severeduty" this was when they were having problems with their car/trucks rusting through in 2 years.
john In NC |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by wassallj
When I took my Pilot in for the 15k service they did not change the differential fluid. I called and asked why and they said Honda had determined it did not need to be changed that often. I just had it in for 30k service and they did not change it again. I called and they said there is no need to change it. Anyone else here this from their dealer?
To avoid having ANY problem later with warranty, I would INSIST that they give you some thing official (in writing), preferably from Honda!!
:confused: |
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| john802 |
quote:
Originally posted by ndusyn
Anyone have any thoughts on making sure the differential fluid is warm before changing? With most fluid changes (especailly engine oil changes), I always make sure it's warmed up to allow for a more complete fluid/contaminants drain :8:
It's a good idea that the oil is warm to the touch when changing it. Just be careful when changing it, you may scald yourself.:)
-john |
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| LlamaPilot |
Just before a trip from CA to CO I had my Pilot in to the dealer for its 15K service. I paid for the service and went on my way, thinking that the $140.00 (w/ $10 coupon) they charged was in line with the going rate for this service interval (looking at the 15K posts).
Yesterday I looked over the invoice and did not see any mention of the VTM - 4 fluid change. I called the dealer and asked the service Dept. about this, they gave me a lame excuse that they were pulling the fluid at 15k and it was coming out clean, so they tool it upon themselves to NOT do this service at the 15K interval. Of course I could COME BACK IN FOR ADDITIONAL SERVICE OF THE VTM-4 FLUID for an additional charge.
WHAT AN OUTRAGE! Honda customer service already has a piece of my mind. Bottom line is the dealer has pocketed $40.00 for skipping this part of the service.
Even if they offer to do it for free now I would not give them my business ever again.
I'll be purchasing the parts from another dealer and doing the job myself....At least I'll know it has been done (and done right). |
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| sungchang |
Just returned from dealer for minor warranty work, of all things the power outlet on the dash started to rotate and then pop out. While at the dealer, I told them to do first oil change at 3600 miles. After the work was done, I asked them as to when is the next recommended service and what does that entail. Recommended service is at 7500 miles at a whopping $169 due to VTM fluid change. He showed me a Pilot recommended service checklist from Honda that said that VTM fluid is to be changed at:
7500 miles,
15000 miles,
after that at every 30000 miles
Thanks to this forum, I will start doing the VTM fluid change by myself. |
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| RipRocK |
I looked at the bolts and am wondering what tools you guys used to unscrew it? Size specs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
[Addendum: DOH!! I called my servicing dealer to ask and they told me that I just use one of those standard 3/8" socket wrench extender to unscrew it. And here I was, thinking it needed some special bit to fit that square....] |
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| sungchang |
| Hey RipRock, you thinking of doing it yourself. Let us know how it goes. Thanks. |
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| john802 |
quote:
Originally posted by RipRocK
I looked at the bolts and am wondering what tools you guys used to unscrew it? Size specs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Just use 3/8" ratchet wrench...
-john |
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| jazcar |
Near the bottom of page 1 of this thread, MG Pilot suggested the following:
Originally posted by MG Pilot quote:
Both holes actually face the rear of the Pilot. The drain plug is directly below the fill hole. You'll probably want to remove the spare when you do this do give yourself some more room to operate. BTW, you don't need any particular socket to do this...you simply use the square end of your 1/2" ratchet to loosen and tighten the drain plugs...
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| john802 |
quote:
Originally posted by jazcar
Near the bottom of page 1 of this thread, MG Pilot suggested the following:
Originally posted by MG Pilot
jazcar - You need to use a 3/8" ratchet wrench to remove the drain plug of the differential unless there is a change between 2003 and 2004 Pilot Differential drain plug.
-john |
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| jazcar |
john802
Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I just checked --- my '03 is 3/8" |
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| dbaggette |
| It truly is a very easy maintenance item. I completed the drain and refill at 29K, and the whole process took less than 30 minutes. My advice: 1. Definitely drop the spare. 2. Purchase the screw-on pump for the vtm-4 jug. This can be purchased at autozone for $3. The most difficult part is the pumping part, which will give your forearms a workout. The whole project cost me less than 30 minutes, and $25.00. |
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| hiflyer89 |
To Honda's credit the manual does state that occasional "severe" conditions do not qualify for the severe services. Also, it states that altitude isn't a factor until 8000'.
Also surprised me that the manual shows oil changes only at 7500mi! Good for them! 'Course every oil manuf. and dealer always suggests 3000mi...hmm, s'pose they have a vested interest? :4:
I'll have to check my local dealer's rates for the VTM. If the supplies are $25 and some only charge $50 - heck, I'll eat the $25 for the warranty warm fuzzies and 30-60min of my time... |
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| knucklebusted |
My wife just took her Pilot in for the 15K-ish service. We kept making jokes about her being sure to tell them to lube her rear.
Anyway, she gets the oil changed and the service rep tells her there are no grease fittings in the rear. They called me at work and I explained to him about the 15K VTM fluid change and he said it wasn't needed until 30K miles.
To me, that is a very high maintenance item for something that doesn't even have external exposure. Once the break-in metal is extracted from the magnet and old fluid, there should be little or no wear after that. The transmission fluid, which definitely has more load and use, isn't changed that often. The only reason to change a closed system lubricant is if it is contaminated, like from combustion or wear particles. It certainly isn't burning fuel. Does that mean the VTM unit is constantly wearing against itself? Very un-Honda like. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by knucklebusted
. . . .
To me, that is a very high maintenance item for something that doesn't even have external exposure. Once the break-in metal is extracted from the magnet and old fluid, there should be little or no wear after that. The transmission fluid, which definitely has more load and use, isn't changed that often. The only reason to change a closed system lubricant is if it is contaminated, like from combustion or wear particles. It certainly isn't burning fuel. Does that mean the VTM unit is constantly wearing against itself? Very un-Honda like.
The VTM system has two sets of wet clutches that are being cycled quite a bit. IT also has a lot less total fluid than the transmission.
I think this justifies the fluid changes. |
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| knucklebusted |
Again, it sounds like a lot of maintenance on something that typically was ignored on every other vehicle and hardly ever was serviced, if ever, in 100,000 miles to no ones detriment.
When all cars were rear wheel drive, rear end grease was changed very seldom and rear ends seldom failed, usually from loss of fluid not from lack of changing.
The trend has been for maintenance intervals to go longer, not shorter. Some vehicles are beind scheduled for 100,000 mile tuneups and transmission fluid changes. Then the VTM comes along and goes in the completely other end of the spectrum. I guess I'd prefer a more conventional positraction, that does have wear components, and gets more than 30K out of a fluid change. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by knucklebusted
Again, it sounds like a lot of maintenance on something that typically was ignored on every other vehicle and hardly ever was serviced, if ever, in 100,000 miles to no ones detriment.
When all cars were rear wheel drive, rear end grease was changed very seldom and rear ends seldom failed, usually from loss of fluid not from lack of changing.
The trend has been for maintenance intervals to go longer, not shorter. Some vehicles are beind scheduled for 100,000 mile tuneups and transmission fluid changes. Then the VTM comes along and goes in the completely other end of the spectrum. I guess I'd prefer a more conventional positraction, that does have wear components, and gets more than 30K out of a fluid change.
Think if it more like a cross between a automatic transmission and a transfer case.
It is not a simple gear box like an old rear diff. |
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| knucklebusted |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Think if it more like a cross between a automatic transmission and a transfer case.
It is not a simple gear box like an old rear diff.
A transfer case in a conventional 4x4 has no wear items to speak of. If you don't put 500ft/lb of torque through them, they'll live forever. I've got 76K on my S10 and have never looked at the transfer case but once when I had the tranny fluid changed at 74K.
Its just odd, American vehicles are getting longer service intervals and Honda is getting shorter intervals. |
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| RipRocK |
From what I've read, this is a magnet, which is supposed to have the dirt and the particles floating around in the differential case adhering to itself.
So, when the drain plug is unscrewed, is the dirt and the sludge supposed to be collected at the flat end of the bolt and that's where you'd wipe it clean, free of the dirt?
I'm asking because, I actually had observed a diff fluid change in the past and I don't recall the technician taking the time at all to wipe anything off the drain bolt. |
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| smurray |
| Hey RipRock, good question. The magnet is located on the drain plug as you stated. When I changed my fluid there was just a little gunk on there. I wiped it off with my rag and it barely made a smudge. It was also pretty difficult to get everything off of the bolt, the magnet must be pretty strong. I bet that you could go several fluid changes without cleaning the bolt and you'd be fine. |
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| knucklebusted |
Here's how I clean the magnet: I have a VERY strong telescoping stick magnet that I put in a plastic bag like an old shopping bag, Then put it next to the drainplug and it will overpower the drainplug magnet. Turn the bag inside out and pull the magnet away, leaving the trapped crap inside the bag. Then I toss the old paper towels, latex gloves and empty fluid jug in it as well.
Also, you can shoot a bit of WD40 on the drainplug to soften up any gunk that won't wipe off easily. The pressure alone will clean out most little grooves and such. |
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| nolan65 |
I just changed my VTM fluid. I didn’t think I was ever going to get the fill bolt loose. The drain bolt was tight but not like the fill bolt….
7500 miles on fluid, still looks new. I did however drive many miles in the mountains. And many short trips. So I fell in the severe service category |
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| Fireforge |
| I just did mine yesterday. Left a nice red streak on the cement where it missed the jug =) I was afraid people would think I was trying to clean up something (or someone) I'd crushed under my car! I dropped the used fluid off at the Honda dealership. |
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| Bklynprince |
| I just had the dealer do the 15000 mile service, quite expensive, 299.99 plus tax. But it made a big difference in the pilot, it felt like it was brand new! But again, expensive!! |
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| john802 |
quote:
Originally posted by Bklynprince
I just had the dealer do the 15000 mile service, quite expensive, 299.99 plus tax. But it made a big difference in the pilot, it felt like it was brand new! But again, expensive!!
What did they do to cost that much for a 15,000 mile service?:(
-john |
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| GoAvs |
| How/where is everyone getting rid of the used VTM fluid? Will oil recyclers take it? |
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| thomasj2 |
| In NY state oil sellers must take back used oil, motor oil, ATF, hydro, etc. Just take it back to Honda. |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by GoAvs
How/where is everyone getting rid of the used VTM fluid? Will oil recyclers take it?
I just took mine to AutoZone - just as I do used crankcase oil. No questions asked.
:) |
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| GoAvs |
| I knew Autozone took oil but wasn't sure about VTM fluid. Thanks guys. |
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| AlH |
quote:
Originally posted by MG Pilot
Good this jobs looks pretty easy...I'll go buy a gear lube pump for a few buck and do it myself!!!
Does anyone know what the oil capacity of the differential case is??? I know, I could look in the manual, but I'm at work...
Around 3 qts, but since it only comes in gallons..... |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by AlH
Around 3 qts, but since it only comes in gallons.....
And so after 3 changes - you have enough for a 4th change!!! :D |
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| pilot04 |
I went to a local honda dealer to pick up parts so that I can change the vtm fluid in a few weekends.
parts:
washer 94109-20000 $0.59
washer 90471-px4-000 $1.91
VTM diff fluid 08200-9003 $17.19
honda fluid pump 08200-9004 They threw it in for free
Not bad since service wanted $119 for changing vtm and I can apply the savings to xmas gifts :4: |
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| kruzo |
Everything has been said.
however my 2c:
The botlts are on very tight. A breaker bar is definitely helpful. Wearing gloves would not hurt either.
I've invested in a $10 pump from Autozone -- definitely worth it since pumping is the longest phase of this process.
Not sure why one would need to drop the
spare -- if you have a small 4 piece set of
extensions for your ratchet -- you should be all set.
The parts guy at Honda told me not to worry about replacing the crash washers the first couple of times. You may say "what does he know". What he does know is that his mechanics don't do it since he is the one who gives them the parts for your service. The washers did not appear deformed, and I put them right back.
Overall, the process is no more complex
then changing the oil. |
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| Aggie Pilot |
| The only, and probably best, reason to drop the spare is to check its air pressure. The 2 times I've changed the rear diff fluid its been about 15 to 20 psi low. |
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| Oahu_Dave |
| I did the change the other day while doing oil and rotating tires. I can't thank everyone here enough. No way would I have tried to do this on my own without all the direction from everyone here. It was almost too easy. I jacked the front up way high while I changed the oil/rotated tires on the wifes Accord. Lowered the Pilot back down and it dripped a bit more. I also took a telescoping magnet thing I have and poked around a bit and pulled out a bit more metal bits. I ended up using a quart of the fluid to flush as well. While jacked up I pumped a bit of it through the case. Mainly so I didnt have to store it, but it also couldnt hurt. |
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