| dzitlow |
| What is the size in mm for a wrench or socket to use on removing and reinstalling drain plug for engine change? |
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| xyzzy |
Wow. I was just under there changing the oil, and I can't say for sure. I think it was around a 14mm. This being the first time, I felt the bolt and grabbed few in that range to try.
Chris |
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| davemac |
| I thought that it was the 17mm. Anyway, it definitely is either 14,15, or 17. |
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| dzitlow |
I am anticipating my own oil and filter change. I tried a l6mm socket and it didn't seem to slip. Well, we got a "range" of l4mm. to l7mm.
Maybe somebody can give a definitive size. I just don't want to strip the bolt. Thanks again! |
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| davemac |
Ok, despite throwing my back out on Tues, I just went out and slid underneath to put this to rest. First off, I believe that 16mm may be an "odd" size, as both my box wrench and socket sets omit it, and jump from 15mm to 17mm.
Anyway, I used a 17mm box wrench which worked fine... no "rounding" of the bolt. |
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| Bean |
I know this thread is a month old, but...
Just curious if those of you who did your own oil change can shed some light on how it went?
Were the filter and the drain bolt easy to access? Is the filter your typical screw-on type, or is it a cartridge?
I recall someone mentioning in another thread about a "crush" washer that should be replaced when you put the drain bolt back on. Are those washers available at the dealer?
I don't have my Pilot yet, but I plan on doing my own oil changes once I get it. I've always done my own oil changes. Sure, the dealer could do it cheaper and I wouldn't get dirty. But the problem I have with someone else doing it is that they aren't going to give it the same care and attention as I would. I know the job will be done right...I'm a perfectionist! (not always a good thing) :2: |
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| xyzzy |
The oil change on the Pilot is the easiest that I've ever done. The filter is easily available from the bottom and vertically oriented with no cross members below it. The drain plug is easy to access also (as with most vehicles from my experience). The dealers will definitely have the crush washers, just don't let someone tell you that you only need to change them every x number of times. It should be changed every time. They should only cost about 25 cents.
Chris |
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| hoppy |
| Since the factory oil has additives for engine breakin before the 7500 miles service, what is the rationale for changing oil before 7500? I guess some members are changing oil/filter around 3750 miles. |
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| MG Pilot |
| The oil change is pretty easy indeed. You will need a little muscle to get the drain plug loose the first time. It was tight!!! Everything else is very simple. However, even though you don’t need to, I’m going to use jack stands next time. |
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| MG Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by hoppy
Since the factory oil has additives for engine breakin before the 7500 miles service, what is the rationale for changing oil before 7500? I guess some members are changing oil/filter around 3750 miles.
I changed mine around 4000. There is no proof that there any additives. There are several independent studies that corroborate this, btw. I just felt better getting the petro-based oil out in the synthetic in. |
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| xyzzy |
quote:
Originally posted by MG Pilot
There is no proof that there any additives.
Actually, its listed on Honda's website that it does.
As far as mileage goes, the "severe" schedule is 3750 for the first change, so I would expect that some have changed at 3750 because they fit into this category.
Chris |
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| AlH |
As to this statement-
There is no proof that there any additives.
quote:
Originally posted by xyzzy
Actually, its listed on Honda's website that it does.
Chris
Please point out where it says that. I haven't been able find such a claim. They do say in one place it is "specially formulated". That can mean anything, like maybe it is thinner oil, which used to be common in new vehicles and is still done on some.
Here's my puzzler- If this original oil has some special and presumably good additive, then why don't they sell it to add to the oil at every change???
Al |
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| AlH |
quote:
Originally posted by Bean
I know this thread is a month old, but...
Just curious if those of you who did your own oil change can shed some light on how it went?
Were the filter and the drain bolt easy to access? Is the filter your typical screw-on type, or is it a cartridge?
I recall someone mentioning in another thread about a "crush" washer that should be replaced when you put the drain bolt back on. Are those washers available at the dealer?
Very easy and a typical spin on oil filter in a pretty convenient place compared to some. BTW I was out of town and stopped at the Honda dealer in Aiken SC and he GAVE me some crush washers and a bottle of touch up paint! Nice place to do business with apparently.
Al |
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| xyzzy |
quote:
Originally posted by AlH
As to this statement-
There is no proof that there any additives.
Please point out where it says that. I haven't been able find such a claim. They do say in one place it is "specially formulated". That can mean anything, like maybe it is thinner oil, which used to be common in new vehicles and is still done on some.
Here's my puzzler- If this original oil has some special and presumably good additive, then why don't they sell it to add to the oil at every change???
Al
While you are technically correct that it states "specially formulated", the essence of the message is that they do state that there is something different about the break-in oil and that you shouldn't drain it before the recommended schedule (3,750 or 7,000 based on usage). Many claim that it's additives, but I actually believe that it's more likely that its special because of what they DON'T put in the oil (i.e. - friction modifiers). The reason I (along with many others) believe this is that the reason they use the special oil is to allow the engine to develop natural wear patterns. Friction modifiers/anti-wear agents would slow down this break-in process (often quoted as the main reason that many have recommended against using a synthetic until X number of miles). This also answers your question of "why not use it all the time?" You want wear enough to break the engine in, but beyond that engine wear becomes something you want to prevent.
Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't believe that what Honda states about their oil in their own vehicles in this matter?
Chris |
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| MG Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by xyzzy
While you are technically correct that it states "specially formulated", the essence of the message is that they do state that there is something different about the break-in oil and that you shouldn't drain it before the recommended schedule (3,750 or 7,000 based on usage). Many claim that it's additives, but I actually believe that it's more likely that its special because of what they DON'T put in the oil (i.e. - friction modifiers). The reason I (along with many others) believe this is that the reason they use the special oil is to allow the engine to develop natural wear patterns. Friction modifiers/anti-wear agents would slow down this break-in process (often quoted as the main reason that many have recommended against using a synthetic until X number of miles). This also answers your question of "why not use it all the time?" You want wear enough to break the engine in, but beyond that engine wear becomes something you want to prevent.
Can anyone give me a reason why I shouldn't believe that what Honda states about their oil in their own vehicles in this matter?
Chris
Then why do Honda's own people themselves not believe these claims of mouse milk oil??? I have called several dealers and they ALL stated that if it were THEIR Pilot, they would switch change oil at 3000 to 4000 miles tops. I switched to Mobil1 and the car is as smooth as can be. Even if there is some special oil, then 4000 miles is more then enough to establish wear patterns... |
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| hoppy |
This is Tim's, Hondacuraworld, statement I found in ACURA MDX.ORG
"My advice is to wait until the 7500 for the first oil change. The original oil has a high concentration of molybdenum disulfide (moly) to assist in engine break-in. I'd stick with the 3K-ish intervals after that." |
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| MG Pilot |
| Changing the oil every 3k is too often in my opinion. 7.5k is ok even with petro-based oil. |
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| xyzzy |
quote:
Originally posted by MG Pilot
Changing the oil every 3k is too often in my opinion. 7.5k is ok even with petro-based oil.
I agree....if you don't fall into the category of "severe" as defined in the owners manual. If you your usage pattern falls into the category of severe and you don't change the oil until 7,500 miles, you are only changing the oil half as often as you should.
Chris |
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| xyzzy |
quote:
Originally posted by MG Pilot
Then why do Honda's own people themselves not believe these claims of mouse milk oil??? I have called several dealers and they ALL stated that if it were THEIR Pilot, they would switch change oil at 3000 to 4000 miles tops. I switched to Mobil1 and the car is as smooth as can be. Even if there is some special oil, then 4000 miles is more then enough to establish wear patterns...
These are not Honda engineers. They are mechanics. I would venture to guess that they base this on the fact that their opinion is that most people drive under what Honda defines as severe (most notably the stop and go traffic with long periods of idle). I changed at 3,750 because I fit into the category based on 90+ temps on a daily basis. But hey, if you want to trust the local mechanic instead of the automotive engineers, go for it!
Chris |
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| hoppy |
| I have a Mercedes C320 and the oil change is not required until 11 or 12 thousand miles (dictated by the computer). However, the Mercedes holds 8.5 quarts of synthetic oil. |
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| MG Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by hoppy
I have a Mercedes C320 and the oil change is not required until 11 or 12 thousand miles (dictated by the computer). However, the Mercedes holds 8.5 quarts of synthetic oil.
Your Mercedes has a sensor that is continually monitoring the quality of the oil right??? |
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| hoppy |
| yes, also there is no dipstick to check level. everything is computer readout on the dash. |
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| MG Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by hoppy
yes, also there is no dipstick to check level. everything is computer readout on the dash.
THAT would be sweet...
See, you truely do get what you pay for... |
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| Bean |
Thanks for the replies guys!
I also plan to use Mobil1.
Are there any warranty issues if you use a grade other than 10w30?
Isn't that what the Pilot takes?
I know most cars recommend several grades of oils, depending on what your temperatures will average. Mobil1 does not come in a 10w30, correct? |
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| gewf631 |
I know there's another post with this tag-line ( http://www.honda-pilot.org/forums/s...=&threadid=1513 ), but this one's more active so I'm posting here.
First oil change is being performed by the dealer today (only second time in 20+ years of driving that I'm having it done, and that's only because it's free!) and spoke with the service adviser about frequency.
He agreed that they don't like to see the first oil change until 5K, and rattled-off the company line about special break-in additives, yadda, yadda, yadda. Personally, I disagree with that line, but didn't feel like getting into this discussion with him. I do know that dino-oils are almost always used during the break-in period, because their properties are better suited for this purpose.
Which brings me to oil selection. I use synthetic in my more 'abused' equipment (garden tractor, generator - both Honda, of course), and in my motorcycle (Goldwing - Honda, of course). If you look at OEM oil selection, synthetic is mainly used in the high performance vehicles - as much as we'd like to think otherwise, the Pilot isn't quite in that category. I use it in my motorcycle, because the oil is shared between the engine and transmission, and synthetic oils have given me better gear shifts. FWIW, I've noticed an increased idle speed whenever I use synthetic.
As for frequency, I used to use the 3K schedule, until I started reading things on other forums, and talked to an oil company representative. I've now switched to a 5K schedule, mostly because it's really easy to keep track of, but from what I've learned, even 7K to 10K is fine (for my driving). Since I change it myself, it costs about $5 per oil change, so the extra comfort I get out of 5K changes, is worth the small cost.
Usual disclaimers, as these are just my opinions, and your's may vary!
Ed F
H-Blue EX-L |
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| nova pilot |
1. Anyone know what the recommended torque is on the honda oil drain bolt? Yes ... I could do it by "feel" ... but I have a nicce accurate torque wrench ... might as well use it.
2. Crush ring - I haven't changed the oil on the Pilot yet ... but on the S2000 I fould that the ring had 2 distinct sides. One side is very flat leading to a sharp edge. The other is a bit more "rounded" leading to a more smooth edge. The "flat" edge is what mated with the engine side. I assume the Pilot is the same. |
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| TheWorm |
On the X, drain bolt torque is 29 lbft; filter torque is 16 lbft. I'd expect the same w/the Pilot but you might want to verify.
I don't recall one rounded/one flat side on the crush washer @ my last change. |
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| Bean |
Worm, just out of curiousity...
How would you measure the torque on the filter?
Thanks for those specs, btw. :) |
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| TheWorm |
| I use a filter wrench to loosen/tighten. It "cups" the bottom of the filter & attaches to the ratchet/torquewrench: |
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| Bean |
Ahhh...
Sometimes my ignorance amazes me! :2:
Anyway, 16 lbft isn't much. I'd assume it just about "hand-tight".
Thanks for the info.
BTW...That's a big supply of filters you got there! |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by Bean
Ahhh...
Sometimes my ignorance amazes me! :2:
Anyway, 16 lbft isn't much. I'd assume it just about "hand-tight".
Thanks for the info.
BTW...That's a big supply of filters you got there!
I've been told that most techs just hand tighten the filters. Like nova pilot, if ya got a torque wrench ya might as well get your $ worth!
I just have half-a-dozen filters; ripped the pic off somebody else's site ;) |
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| AlH |
Several things come to mind here.
If the original "break-in" oil indeed has a high level of molybdenum disulfide, that seems counter to allowing natural wear patterns to develop. Moly is an *anti-wear* additive. Seems that would inhibit such patterns from developing.
Synthetic is now standard from the factory on several vehicles, so this seems to contradict all the "legend" on it inhibiting proper break-in.
All very puzzling indeed. Me, I changed the oil at 2500 and it disturbed me waiting that long, I have always been a very early changer during break-in. I figure if the oil DID have some magical properties it was long enough, if it didn't, then it wasn't TOO long to wait.:p
Al |
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| PILOTHEAD |
| 17mm is the same size as my acura v6..... sort of actually it seems a hair smaller yet it works fine a 16mm is to small no sae sizes seems to come as close as 17mm also the acura takes the same filter just started changing my own again after years of having the monkeys do it and the dealer is kinda far from our domocile. ALSO IF ANYBODY HAS ANY REAL DATA ON DIFFERENCES BEWTWEEN BRANDS OF OIL I WOIULD LIKE TO SEE IT(HAVE NOT SEARCHED THE SITE YET BUT I AM THINKING ITS FULL OF OPINIONS BASED ON GRAN PAPPYS THEORYS |
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| shutrbug |
I used to change the oil myself on my '81 Accord and '90 Trooper. The Trooper was so high off the grond that I could slide underneath without having to jack up the car or use ramps. For those who are changing the oil yourselves, do you need to raise the car somehow?
Thanks,
-shutrbug |
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| PILOTHEAD |
| I was able to get to the drain bolt and filter wihtout having to raise the Pilot, and was able to remove and replace filter without any tools. |
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| shutrbug |
quote:
Originally posted by PILOTHEAD
I was able to get to the drain bolt and filter wihtout having to raise the Pilot, and was able to remove and replace filter without any tools.
Just what I wanted to hear! :D Thanks! |
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| PILOTHEAD |
| isnt this web site the greatest:4: |
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| Pilot4Biking |
quote:
Originally posted by PILOTHEAD
I was able to get to the drain bolt and filter wihtout having to raise the Pilot, and was able to remove and replace filter without any tools.
I was also able to change the oil without raising the Pilot. I did turn the front wheels all the way to the right so I could get to the oil filter easier from the side of the car. I needed the extra leverage since the gorillas on the assy line torqued it on tight as hell.:3:
I used Castrol GTX 5W20 and used the K&N Gold recommended filter (HP-1004, same as Odyssey) with no problem. Dang, that oil is thin!! Sounded like water pouring into the engine. Watch out when you loosen the drain plug because the oil shoots out fast. Didn't need to replace the crush washer though. I doubt you will have to replace it for a long time. |
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| MG Pilot |
| The crush washer should be replaced every time one changes the oil... |
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| PILOTHEAD |
Yeah i forgot you do have to turn the wheel to get at the filter
Crush washer I have not seen a strong case either way... have not noticed any leaks reusing not replacing but i have only done 1 so far
my goal is to be quick enough to get the drain bolt out without having the oil get on my hand ... i have not reached my goal yet;) |
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| PILOTHEAD |
quote:
Originally posted by Pilot4Biking
the gorillas on the assy line torqued it on tight as hell.:3:
I have seen other cars they dont tighten it enough now whioch would you rather have:2: |
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| Pilot4Biking |
quote:
Originally posted by MG Pilot
The crush washer should be replaced every time one changes the oil...
NO WAY!!! Not necessary. Give me a break. They make the stuff out of brass so it meshes and molds to the oil pan. I know the manual says it needs to be replaced every time, but it's not like it's made out on nylon and there is a chance for cracking when overtorquing it. |
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| MG Pilot |
| It's actually made out of aluminum... |
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| Pilot4Biking |
quote:
Originally posted by MG Pilot
It's actually made out of aluminum...
fine, you got me on the material. I was thinking of the one off my Chevy. Not trying to pick a fight at all , I swear.
My point was only that it's a pain to go find a replacement part everytime, when it doesn't leak if you use the same one over and over. Just trying to tell everyone who is contemplating DIY oil changes all the facts.
Happy Piloting:2: |
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| Pilot4Biking |
quote:
Originally posted by PILOTHEAD
I have seen other cars they dont tighten it enough now which would you rather have:2:
So true. I love that they have come out with oil filters with grip and wrench attachments on them now. Great inventions. |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by Pilot4Biking
My point was only that it's a pain to go find a replacement part everytime, when it doesn't leak if you use the same one over and over. Just trying to tell everyone who is contemplating DIY oil changes all the facts.
Happy Piloting:2:
Why not just buy them with your filters (if you're using Honda filters, that is)? I know Tim automatically ships the crush washers with the filters he sells, as does my local dealer. They're about 25 cents each seperately. |
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| PILOTHEAD |
bike-
Yeah i know and the invetions seem so simple!
I like the grip on Fram filters and they are resonably priced
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| krygny |
With the right tool, the size of your nuts doesn't matter:
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| AlH |
| If that isn't a metric vice grip you could screw up the oil drain bolt..... |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by AlH
If that isn't a metric vice grip you could screw up the oil drain bolt.....
I don't think that matters, as long you use a right-handed one to loosen it and a left-handed one to tighten it. |
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