| Cali_Pilot |
N_Jay read my post about needing a donut spare to return with my 2003 Honda Lemon (my Pilot EX) and he wanted to know the story. I tried to PM him and I had more words than the 2000-word limit for PM so I decided to post it here for you all to read.
I'm having numerous tranny and SRS problems along with a crap load of other issues so I decided to talk to an attorney about giving this Lemon back to Honda and making them give me a new one. The complaint is actually not considered a California Lemon Law complaint. The attorney called it The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. According to this act, the manufacturer has two, possibly three attempts to fix the problem. My tranny is going on number 4 and my SRS on number 5 or 6. Just like most of you with 2003s, I had to get the 2nd gear oil jet kit installation. My attorney is counting that as number 1. Then I had a high pitched whine at 50-60 MPH. The service manager and mechanic thought it was bad enough to require a new tranny and torque converter. That was number 2. A few days after the replacement, I noticed that the high pitched whine was now happening between 1-50 MPH but not in the higher speeds. I took it back and they test drove it again. They confirmed the problem but said that the tranny just needed to get broken in for 5K miles. They also found a leaking axle seal on the tranny so they had to replace that. That was number 3. When my service was complete I was told that if the whine did not go away after driving it for 5K miles, I need to bring it back so they can replace it again. Even though I knew it wasn't gonna go away, I still drove the 5K and just took it back in two weeks ago. Now the service manager and mechanic are saying that the noise is normal and it's not something they are going to replace the tranny for. At this point I'm thinking to myself, "Are you kidding me? You already replaced it once before for the same exact problem. Now it's normal?" So last I heard, they are gonna have me come in whenever the regional rep is in town to see if Honda will give me an extended warranty for the tranny. Again I thought to myself, "I already have the 7yr/100K HondaCare warranty. How much more can they offer me? Screw this, I'm getting a lawyer!" So that's when I pretty much made up my mind that Honda needs to shove this car up their butt.
As for my SRS problem; I've had the SRS safety recall just like most of you with 2003s. My attorney says that's number 1. I really wasn't gonna count that one as being a repair because to me it was more of an improvement but he has a different opinion so I'll just let him decide what he's gonna use for ammo. My second SRS visit was for the SRS light coming on. Apparently, some circuit got fried. They replaced the circuit and reset the light. Third SRS was for the light coming on again. This time the OPDS sensor was busted. They replaced the sensor and reset the light. The next time they didn't have anything to work with so they blamed my battery terminals as being loose and charged me $70 to reset the light. I called up Honda and gave them an angry complaint but they said they couldn't do anything about it. Apparently they contacted the dealership about it because when I went back in the following week because the light came on again, all they did this time was reset the light. There was no charge for the fourth SRS reset. The fifth and latest time, in November, the light came back on. They said the OPDS sensor was bad again. They reset the light and ordered the OPDS but I haven't gone back to have it installed. I have an appointment this Tuesday to have it installed. At this point I'm just looking for more ammo to present the attorney with. This second OPDS sensor replacement should add a nice touch to the package. As if things couldn't get any worse (for Honda), I took in the Pilot for suspension problems and they said that everything was working as designed stating specifically that there were no strut leaks. I had my tires rotated on Tuesday at a Tires Plus franchise and they said that both of my front struts were leaking. The Honda dealership is gonna check them out on Tuesday when i get the OPDS installed. Yes, more ammo! When the guy at Tires Plus told me about the struts I started thinking to myself, "Sweet, I wonder how much he would charge me to make the tranny leak?" God, I need to stop thinking to myself. All it does is it fuels my bad intentions.
Anyway, aside from those two major areas, I've also had brake problems and tons of interior problems. I did have to get the shims installed for the brake clunk. I also had to get silicone applied to the calipers because they were making noises too. As far as interior stuff goes, here's the repairs: Headliner replacement, both rear door sills replaced (twice), right quarter panel replacement, center console replacement, weatherstrip replacement on front doors, right kick panel replacement, glovebox squeeks, shifter unlock cover replacement, and lift-gate internal handle replacement. There are a few more but it's starting to piss me off so I'll stop with the interior part. As for electrical repairs, I've had a bad driver side multiplex control unit go bad and not replaced because they blamed it on the dimmer wire that connects to the harness for my aftermarket head unit. I thought it was funny since the crutchfield harness had wires for illumination and dimmer and my Pioneer just had illumination so from day one I had the dimmer wire taped off. They didn't care. I've also had the lift-gate light switch go bad and had it replaced. Lastly, I had my battery replaced under warranty during my second year of ownership. I think I have a pretty good case don't you?
Finally, according to the attorney, 99 percent of their cases never make it to court because the manufacturer is responsible for paying court fees and attorney fees if they lose. They'd rather just replace it with another vehicle of equal or greater value, or give you a 100% refunds. He said most of the time the compensation is a new vehicle because it costs them alot less. Either way, if they decided to give me a refund I'd probably just make my way to a Honda dealership and buy another Pilot. I don't care, it's up to them. In the rare case that the consumer loses, the attorney has to eat it up. He doesn't get a dime. Either way, it's not costing me a damn thing so I guess I have nothing to lose except for my Lemon. |
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| RGZ Custom |
Just curious why all the following were replaced, did they crack?
" both rear door sills replaced (twice), right quarter panel replacement, center console replacement, weatherstrip replacement on front doors, right kick panel replacement, shifter unlock cover replacement, and lift-gate internal handle replacement." |
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| RSD |
wow, thats messed up.
good luck with your case, hope you get yourself a new shiny pilot :) |
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| phil17 |
| i think he's talking about the various plastic sills popping up for no reason. I can not begin to say how many times my dealer ordered new plates only to intall it wrong or have it pop up for no apparently reasons down the road. My warrentie's over now on my 03 with onlt 56,000km's. We barely drive the car because it's got a highway whine that the dealers more or less refuse to look at. I highly doubt i would ever get a Honda again that's not made in Japan or something. At least with my Acura (a new 2006 csx with it's own set of problems already), the dealer's much more helpful but nobody should have to pay for a premium badge to get better and more responsive service |
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| Cali_Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by RGZ Custom
Just curious why all the following were replaced, did they crack?
" both rear door sills replaced (twice), right quarter panel replacement, center console replacement, weatherstrip replacement on front doors, right kick panel replacement, shifter unlock cover replacement, and lift-gate internal handle replacement."
RGZ,
phil17 is correct. The door sills kept popping up for no reason. The first time they replaced them, they basically forced the hook into the right quarter panel hole and it bent the hook and broke the hole. They did the same thing on the left side but the left quarter panel was not damaged. I didn't even notice the quarter panel being broken until the damn sill plates popped up a few months later. I removed them to see why the kept coming up and that's when I seen that the hooks were bent on both sides and that the right quarter panel was broken where the hook snaps on to. That's when I took it back to them and had them replace both of them again and let them know that they also broke the quarter panel.
My center console started peeling. The black area where you attach the cupholders and a few other areas on there were losing the black paint and started showing brown plastic. The dealership refused to replace it under warranty because they said it was normal wear. After I talked to the service manager, he agreed to fix it and had the parts dept order the console. When I took the car in to get it replaced, they noticed that they ordered the wrong parts so instead of telling me to bring it back later, they thought they'd be sneeky and just have it repainted. I guess they thought they'd get away with it. Well the job was crappy and I noticed it as soon as I got in. I let them know on the spot and they told me I should be happy that they even painted it because they shouldn't even be bothering with it. Shortly after, I got deployed to Guam and I had my wife take the car to our purchasing dealership during her stay in California. The dealership there did not want to replace it neither because they thought she was lying about the other dealership ordering parts but instead painting it. They ran a warranty history and of course there was no record of it being fixed. They had the regional rep take a look at it and he approved the replacement.
The weatherstrip was not staying attached to the doors and the decorative strips where not staying attached between the kickpanels and the surrounding panels. It turned out that the kick panels clips were broken and was not holding on to the decorative strips. I'm not sure what the strips are actually called but it's those interior-colored weatherstrip-looking things that go all around the edge of the door frame. Not on the actual door.
The shifter lock cover is that little cover on the steering column. I actually had to use it once because I couldn't get the car out of PARK even though I had the brake all the way down. When I put it back on, the small tabs got bent and it would not stay down. All the did was order a new cover. It cost like .15 or trivial amount. The inner handle on the lift-gate was broken but concealed during the light switch replacement. The damn thing fell off later and the dealership denied that they glued it back on. I hate that $hit. |
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| RGZ Custom |
| Wow, I don't even know what to say! Best of luck to you in getting the Pilot replaced. I guess we're somewhat lucky in the Atlanta area in that we have so many dealers to choose from. Sounds like your Honda dealer's service department needs to be replaced from the top down. Are you sure it's not a GM dealer in disguise? |
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| N_Jay |
I almost hate to ask, but who did all this work?
HU: Pioneer AVIC-Z1
Clarion OHM102 10.2" Overhead Monitor.
F. Speakers: Infinity Reference 6000cs
R. Speakers: Infinity Reference 6012i
Speaker Amp: Profile AP1040 (80X4)
Subwoofer: PowerBase Xtreme ES10D
Subwoofer Amp: Jensen 200W RMS
Dynamat Xtreme: 4 doors+ sub location
Seems a lot of the interior was probably disassembled to do all that? |
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| Cali_Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I almost hate to ask, but who did all this work?
HU: Pioneer AVIC-Z1
Clarion OHM102 10.2" Overhead Monitor.
F. Speakers: Infinity Reference 6000cs
R. Speakers: Infinity Reference 6012i
Speaker Amp: Profile AP1040 (80X4)
Subwoofer: PowerBase Xtreme ES10D
Subwoofer Amp: Jensen 200W RMS
Dynamat Xtreme: 4 doors+ sub location
Seems a lot of the interior was probably disassembled to do all that?
I installed everything myself. The only thing I don't know if they will make a big deal about is the hole in the headliner if I remove the monitor. They also might make a big deal about the Dynamat-infested doors. What I could say to them is that everything was installed professionally and now it's gonna cost me to get it removed and reinstalled in the new vehicle just because I had a crappy Pilot. Is is really my fault that there will be a hole in the headliner. I don't think so. I didn't plan on ever having to take it down. |
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| 2muchfun |
Hmmmm...
My spidy sense is tingling.... |
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| krygny |
To be clear, I don't want to jump to any conclusions and I don't mean to be accusatory, but I can't imagine that many unrelated problems on the same vehicle unless you're very hard on it (i.e., abusive) or it's a Chevy.
I also can't understand why on Earth, with all those problems, you would consider buying another Pilot. |
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| Cali_Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
To be clear, I don't want to jump to any conclusions and I don't mean to be accusatory, but I can't imagine that many unrelated problems on the same vehicle unless you're very hard on it (i.e., abusive) or it's a Chevy.
I also can't understand why on Earth, with all those problems, you would consider buying another Pilot.
Hey I know what you mean. I know if I were the one that was reading someone elses post just like mine I'd probably be thinking that the guy must be at fault somehow. Believe me when I say this; If I could somehow be at fault, the dealership would not cover the warranty. Like I said before, they didn't want to replace the multiplex unit because I may have been at fault for it even though I know for a fact that there is no way possible that the dimmer wire caused the problem. I had my metra harness and my Pioneer harness wired at the kitchen table and I had the dimmer wire on the Metra harness taped off without ever even removing the insulation. That wire was never exposed to any power source or ground but because that wire was there due to the aftermarket head unit, I was the one to blame and they refused to fix it. Another one I mentioned earlier was one of the SRS lights that came on. They did not get a familiar diagnostic code and because they knew that I had power cables running to the battery for the amps, they were able to blame me for it. All they did was say that my terminals were loose and they charged me $70 to tighten them and clear the code. The only one that I am willing to admit fault to is the shifter unlock cover. Of course I didn't take it off on purpose. I actually had to use it to get out of PARK (probably another tranny problem) but when I put the cover back on I wasn't as gentle as I should have been. There are other things that I didn't write about that have gone bad on my Pilot but those are things that I caused and wouldn't expect my warranty to cover it.
To answer your question. I absolutely love the Pilot. I just don't love mine. At least not at the moment. Don't think I'm just trying to get an '06 or a refund out of this deal. I'd be perfectly happy if they replaced it with an '03 with equal or less miles and minimal problems. There are thousands of Pilots out there and only a handful have had as many problems as mine. I don't think the Pilot is a bad vehicle, I just think I got one of the few bad ones and in my opinion Honda should compensate me if they are not willing to fix the problems. I also need a big vehicle and comparing it to a 4-Runner or a Sequoia, the Pilot is either a bit bigger and cheaper or a bit smaller and alot cheaper. All I want is for them to put in a transmission that performs the same way mine did when it was brand new. They also need to find out what's wrong with my SRS problem. The light comes on at least twice a year and half the time they don't have a fix for it. All they do is cancel the code. If it happens all the time, obviously there's something wrong with it. Why not find out so they can stop wasting my time? You should see the way the people at the dealership look at me when I take the car in. Just by looking at their facial expressions you can tell they're thinking, "What is it now? or Here he comes again!" Hell, I hate going there as much as they hate having me there but as long as I keep having problems I'm gonna keep going back. I was eighteen years old getting paid about $1200 a month when I bought my Pilot for $30K. My car payments were $419 a month plus $200+ for insurance so that pretty much covered over half of my pay but I was so excited about having it that it really didn't matter to me. It was my first car, it was brand new, and I was paying for it all by myself. Do you actually think I would even attempt to "abuse" my baby. Hell no. Initially, the Pilot was leased because I wanted it so bad but I couldn't afford the $600 payments. My lease was supposed to be up this August but I loved this thing so much that I actually bought it from Honda a year and a half before lease-end. I actually knew from day one that I was eventually going to purchase the vehicle. I'll just stop now because this subject is too frustrating for me and I don't even know where I'm going with this anyway. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I sacrificed alot during the first two years for this car and I don't think that Honda is treating my problems like their own. I think I have a right to be pissed off at them. |
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| 2muchfun |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
To be clear, I don't want to jump to any conclusions and I don't mean to be accusatory, but I can't imagine that many unrelated problems on the same vehicle unless you're very hard on it (i.e., abusive) or it's a Chevy.
I also can't understand why on Earth, with all those problems, you would consider buying another Pilot.
Ditto, except for the part about Chevy. You meant to say Ford Im sure :D |
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| JungleJim |
quote:
Originally posted by 2muchfun
Hmmmm...
My spidy sense is tingling....
Sounds like a personal problem....but thanks for sharing ;) |
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| Cali_Pilot |
| I received a phone call from my attorney on Monday and he said that he would take the case but he knew for sure that he wasn't gonna be able to get me a refund or a new car but he said he could "squeeze" a couple grand out of Honda for my troubles. He said he was gonna mail me some papers to sign and after I returned them he would send Honda a letter. I immediately contacted another Lemon Law attorney and he told me that the other lawfirm is not a very good one. He had me fax him my records and he immediately told me that he can probably get me a full refund but for sure at least 90% of it. He said he was gonna look into it a bit further and he'd get back with me by the end of the week. I think it's funny how two lawyers will have two different opinions about what they can win and what they can't. I think the first lawyer was looking at my case as having a bad transmission and noticed that the first transmission work (aside from the jet kit) occured after my original warranty which disqualifies the vehicle as being a lemon. The second lawyer is looking at my case from the SRS problem. That problem has been happening since I got the car. He saw my records showing 5 SRS lights coming on and 2 OPDS sensor replacements and thinks that's good enough to get the refund but he says he might have to bring up the tranny problems if Honda puts up a good fight. I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. The second lawyer says the process can take between 45 and 60 days from the day they send out the demand letter to the day I return the car and get my reimbursement. |
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| ictvuser |
quote:
Originally posted by Cali_Pilot
He had me fax him my records and he immediately told me that he can probably get me a full refund but for sure at least 90% of it ... He saw my records showing 5 SRS lights coming on and 2 OPDS sensor replacements and thinks that's good enough to get the refund
How many miles did the Pilot have when Honda fixed the first SRS light problem?
In California, Honda is entitled to an offset for the use of a vehicle, based on when the first repair attempt was made for the unrepairable defect. The offset percentage is computed as number_of_miles/120000. So if the SRS light problem was first fixed at 6000, refund should be around 95% (e.g., 6000/120000 = 5%).
Don't know if this is the same in ND. |
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| ecsw |
:eek:
holy cow. After all that, do you still have faith with Honda? :p |
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| rockman19762001 |
| Gooood Luck, what a tale, I know how frustrating it is to have a good car go bad! Hope, Honda, Your Attorney, and You can work out an settlement that makes you happy. Keep us posted. An yes, attorneys are amazing at how many different opinions they can generate with the same evidence. |
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| Aru4mie |
quote:
Originally posted by Cali_Pilot
I think it's funny how two lawyers will have two different opinions about what they can win and what they can't. I think the first lawyer was looking at my case as having a bad transmission and noticed that the first transmission work (aside from the jet kit) occured after my original warranty which disqualifies the vehicle as being a lemon. The second lawyer is looking at my case from the SRS problem. That problem has been happening since I got the car. He saw my records showing 5 SRS lights coming on and 2 OPDS sensor replacements and thinks that's good enough to get the refund but he says he might have to bring up the tranny problems if Honda puts up a good fight. I'll keep you guys posted on the progress. The second lawyer says the process can take between 45 and 60 days from the day they send out the demand letter to the day I return the car and get my reimbursement.
Well...maybe you should look for a third lawyer who can combine both the tranny and the srs problems in order to win your case. :D
Kidding aside, I do hope you find an early resolution to your problem.
Good Luck! |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by ecsw
:eek:
holy cow. After all that, do you still have faith with Honda? :p
Don't overreact. Every story has two sides.
- Mark |
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