| Tuck & Jack |
Wondering if anyone could help with some setup questions. I just got a Denon avr-2106 reciever and comcast hd digital box. I used component cables. I think I read that some of the stations broadcast in 1080i (cbs fox?)vs the 720p (abc, espn?), I have a Sony 36" XBR tube set that can take both but one of them, the cbs? feed doesn't fill the whole screen even in width where the abc feed does. Both are switched through the receiver. How do I get all three pieces talking the same language for a great picture?
Also on seting up the crossover range for my reciever and subwoofer. My in wall speakers are Difinitive Audio, they can go down to 30hz in range, but I think I should cut them off higher. At what frequency should that be in the receiver? The sub also has a knob to cut off as well. How should I configure them between the setting in the reciever and the knob on the sub?
The manuals have info, but I guess I can't decipher in each one how to make them work together properly.
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| ED27 |
If your TV has enough inputs for all of your video sources, I would send the signals straight to the TV instead of through the receiver. Also you need to verify the output settings of your cable box. If you have Comcast, I'm assuming you have one of the Motorola 6100 series. There's a setup menu you can access to setup all of your settings (TV Type, Resolution Output and 4:3 Override). This menu is accessed by turning off the box and then pressing the menu button. You may have to press the menu button a second time if the screen does not appear. Once you've finished, just press the power button and the box will turn off.
The 36" sets are of 4:3 ratio type so problem may be with TV Type setting of the cable box. The 34" sets are typically of the 16:9 ratio which is the most popular widescreen format. With the 36" sets you will get the black bars above and below when watching a true HD program broadcast in the 16:9 ratio. CRT based sets do well with a 1080i output. You'll have to try both settings to see which gives the better picture in your eyes. In addition, although you have access to a HD channel not all content is broadcast in HD or in a fomat that plays well with your TV. Some programs are just standard def stuff that's upconverted and stretched so by the time it gets to your set it may look funny depending on your TV screen setting.
As far as the sub goes.....see if you can set the sub for full-range and then make the setting on your receiver. You'll have to play around with crossover points to see which gives you the best sound. For starters try 100HZ and work your way down. If your sub has a better crossover (higher slope and better frequency adjustment) then you may want to make your adjustment on your sub instead. Your Definitive speakers should be crossed over (high pass) close to where your cross over the sub. Sound quality is subjective so you'll have to play around with the settings to get where it needs to be. Does your Denon have an auto-setup feature with a microphone? If it does, it may be useful to get you to a point where you can make minute adjustments instead of major ones. |
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| Bill Balmer |
Good post, ED.
I have a couple of things to add, for what they're worth (what you paid ;) ). My background is in audio - mostly studio work, but I've always been a home audio freak as much as my budget would allow. Also, I have HD, but claim no expertise.
As far as the HD, I have found that the best I could do was to play with various combinations of aspect ratio settings between my receiver (mine's a dish) and my monitor. But the bottom line is that you will never eliminate all of the black bars completely, due to differing broadcast standards from channel to channel. Even on a single channel the aspect will change and bars will appear when going to a (non-HD) commercial during an HD show. What drives me crazy is when someone at the network falls asleep at the switch and forgets to change it back when the show comes on again and I'm watching a shrunk screen without Dolby digital discrete audio. Then, ten minutes later they remember to flip the switch and everything's back the way it should be - just in time for the next commercial.:3: My best advice would be to find a way to easily switch between aspect ratios - my dish receiver's remote has a single button that allows me to stretch and zoom the image to fit my screen. It's not perfect, but it works.
I know that your Denon has component video switching, but are you sure it's capable of passing HD signal? I don't know one way or the other, but when I looked at specs I couldn't find anything that said it was. If it was me, I'd verify that before using it to switch my HD programming.
Finally, like ED said, setting your sub will be somewhat trial and error. However, despite published specs, I guarantee that your in-wall speakers DO NOT go down to 30 Hz in any usable fashion. Speaker manufacturers are infamous for stretching specs - especially on the low end. Saying a speaker goes down to 30 Hz without stating what cut-off threshold you used or how much distortion was produced is meaningless, but it sure looks good on the spec sheet!
If possible, look at a frequency curve graph for both your mains and your sub. Most manufacturers will supply this very basic information. It doesn't tell you nearly the whole story, but it might be enough to give you an idea of where to start setting your crossover. Look for the point where your mains start to fall off at the bottom, then look at the point where you sub falls off at the top. Hopefully they will overlap, and you can start off with your crossover in the middle of that overlap. As ED said, 100 Hz is probably a pretty good guess. If you have room to play with, I'd cheat toward the high side. That will give your mains more clean power to work with for clarity. |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by Tuck & Jack
Wondering if anyone could help with some setup questions. I just got a Denon avr-2106 reciever and comcast hd digital box. I used component cables. I think I read that some of the stations broadcast in 1080i (cbs fox?)vs the 720p (abc, espn?), I have a Sony 36" XBR tube set that can take both but one of them, the cbs? feed doesn't fill the whole screen even in width where the abc feed does. Both are switched through the receiver. How do I get all three pieces talking the same language for a great picture?
The other guys pretty much covered it, but I wanted to put in my 2c. When you hear that CBS and FOX broadcast in 1080i and ABC broadcasts in 720p, I think they're mostly talking about over the air HD broadcasts. The signal coming from you Comcast HD box should be the same for all HD channels and is accessible through the menu function mentioned earlier.
Also, there's no need to switch your video through your receiver if you have the ability to connect it directly. Just run an digital optical cable from your Comcast box to your receiver and run the video component cables straight to the TV. I also run RCA cables from my cable box to my tv, but that's just because sometimes I watch TV without the surround on. |
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| CMasten |
This is a fun post. I too have an audio engineering background and set up HD in my home theater about 5 years ago. After fiddling with this from every angle, I just bought a component switcher to take care of all of it.. believe me you will add more, Xbox, GCube, PS2 etc and they all want Component cables and optical audio (to keep it clean and simple) I bought the Pelican off the net and have all of it running to just the 1080i input of my HD set ( I have a Mitsu ) The audio I just pair off and run that into one input (again keeping it simple) , at our house it was becoming too complex for eveyone to turn on a game, or TV (DTV or OTA) or DVD etc... so this is just one button ea time and it all locks.
When its on a game it sences progressive scan and whatever the games want to put out, if its PBS OTA (over the air, big UHF antenna for me!) then it locks to 1080i or if its HD DTV or other, it just locks to that. I dont mess with all the settings any more.
Ed27 is right on for the SUB, and in reality there is no right way, its subjective and what your like to listen to. I do recommend getting an Avia or other test disk though to run known test signals of both audio and/or video into your system so you can find a baseline and set up your system more accurately.
Home HD theaters are worth every penny, GOD knows I have invested a small fortune into mine, but dont regret any of it, I really appreciate the test disks though without a baseline you could be tweaking this thing forever and never get it that way you want it.
BTW the switcher is a Pelican, system selector Pro 10 input, I think I paid about $70.00 for it. It handles, Component, Y/C, Composite, stereo RCA audio, optical audio and ethernet. Very clean for the price, and its been running strong now for 3 years. |
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| jcantanixon |
| FWIW, I use HDMI from my cable box to the plasma. I bought it because everyone said it was better to use a pure digital signal instead of the analog signal with the component cables. Personally, I couldn't tell the difference - but since I had HDMI on the cable box and the tv, might as well use it :8: |
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| jay |
| What about some of these high end A/V receivers with HDMI. Do they really expect you to get two HDMI cables to go from your tuner box into the receiver, then from the receiver out to the TV. Why not just take the HDMI from the tuner to the TV, and optical or digital audio from the tuner to the receiver? |
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| ED27 |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
What about some of these high end A/V receivers with HDMI. Do they really expect you to get two HDMI cables to go from yout tuner box into the receiver, then from the receiver out to the TV. Why not just take the HDMI from the tuner to the TV, and optical or digital audio from the tuner to the receiver?
Using the receiver as a central video switcher makes sense if your TV does not have enough video inputs. Also, the receiver has to be able to support HD resolution without any signal loss. Most of the newer sets have 2 HDMI inputs so switching through a receiver is usually not necessary for most people. |
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| Tuck & Jack |
Thanks for everyone's advice. You were all correct, in my haste to get it set up and working , I failed to remember that just because it is a HD channel does not mean it is a HD program. The HD aspect works fine. My TV alcove is built in to the wall above my fireplace so I use my receiver as a switch because I only have the one set of components already in the wall and cannot add any other cables easily, although the TV has 7 inputs.
As for the Sub, the 100hz seems to be a good point, and yes the receiver does have an auto setup feature with a mic., so I am getting closer to nirvana. The Denon seems to be a fine piece, I am by no means an audio or video-phile, but the sound and picture are pretty damn good. Can I buy a THX or DTS set up disc? I love the THX sounds at the beginning of some movies. |
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| Tuck & Jack |
| Be carefull of HDMI, not because of quality, but because the damn things don't alway stay plugged in. "My guy" @ Magnolia A/V says that is one of the things they get the most calls about "I got no picture, WTF?" He also said unfortunately there is no fix yet on the horizon. Check your connections. |
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| ED27 |
quote:
Originally posted by Tuck & Jack
Be carefull of HDMI, not because of quality, but because the damn things don't alway stay plugged in. "My guy" @ Magnolia A/V says that is one of the things they get the most calls about "I got no picture, WTF?" He also said unfortunately there is no fix yet on the horizon. Check your connections.
My HDMI connection is secure....the problem maybe more of a cable issue rather than the port. I've seen similar problems with Toslink connections and it always pointed to the cable. Did you get all of your equipment at Magnolia? Using Audioquest perhaps? I use generic stuff from stores like Ram Electronics and Parts Express. Over the years, the cheaper cables have always given me less connection problems vs. the more expensive stuff. Have you been able to try different HDMI cables to isolate the problem? |
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| Bill Balmer |
I'll add my own cabling question here, although I think I know the answer already:
My Hi-Def dish receiver is currently hooked up to my TV via component cables. I noticed that the receiver has a DVI output, which the manual claims is superior. I assume this is a digital connection and the component cables are analog, correct? My HD TV is about 4 years old and has inputs for the component cables (obviously) as well as an HD-RGB input. There is very little info. supplied in the TV owner's manual about what types of inputs these are and what is compatible with what. It only says, "If you want to use the HD-RGB input, plug your cable in to the HD-RGB input HERE [see illustration] and turn on the set". Gee, thanks. It looks to me like the HD-RGB input is also an analog input, which would make it completely incompatible with the DVI output from the dish receiver. Am I right? I have seen nothing else that uses anything labeled HD-RGB. Is it an obsolete input already? Any info. on these formats would be appreciated.
Assuming that what I've already said is correct, although my TV has 6 or 7 inputs, only one of them is any good for HD (component). I guess when I get my PS3 with Blu-ray HD DVD this fall I'll have to pick up an HD switcher as well, huh? |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Balmer
I'll add my own cabling question here, although I think I know the answer already:
My Hi-Def dish receiver is currently hooked up to my TV via component cables. I noticed that the receiver has a DVI output, which the manual claims is superior. I assume this is a digital connection and the component cables are analog, correct? My HD TV is about 4 years old and has inputs for the component cables (obviously) as well as an HD-RGB input. There is very little info. supplied in the TV owner's manual about what types of inputs these are and what is compatible with what. It only says, "If you want to use the HD-RGB input, plug your cable in to the HD-RGB input HERE [see illustration] and turn on the set". Gee, thanks. It looks to me like the HD-RGB input is also an analog input, which would make it completely incompatible with the DVI output from the dish receiver. Am I right? I have seen nothing else that uses anything labeled HD-RGB. Is it an obsolete input already? Any info. on these formats would be appreciated.
Assuming that what I've already said is correct, although my TV has 6 or 7 inputs, only one of them is any good for HD (component). I guess when I get my PS3 with Blu-ray HD DVD this fall I'll have to pick up an HD switcher as well, huh?
I think you can buy a DVI to VGA (RGB) converter cable to use that input if you really want to, but it would still be Analog-HD. Don't feel like you're missing out. I have both Analog HD (2 x Component, 1 x RGB) connections and Digital HD (2 x HDMI) connections and I can't tell the difference between the two. I plugged in both a set of component cables and a DVI to HDMI converter cable from my HD cable box into my TV and compared the two back to back.
To answer your question about the HD-RGB input on your set, what does it look like? The RGB connection on my set is just a standard VGA plug and I use a standard VGA cable from my home theater PC's standard video card. The resolution is set to 1366x768, so that's high enough to be considered "HD" but it's just labeled RGB on mine.
If yours is the same, then it's far from obsolete...plug a computer into it and you've got yourself a pretty big monitor :eek: (depending on the size of your TV/the resolution of your TV/the resolution of your video card). I use mine for showing off our digital photos and video clips, browsing the web, playing mp3s, etc.
Oh yah, and to answer your last question, you should be looking at a component cable switcher already. If I understand you correctly, you're only using component cables from your HD dish receiver. What about your DVD player? I assume you're still using S-Video or Composite cables for the video signal? If so, you aren't getting the clearest output from your DVD player...even if it's not HD DVD, it'll give a much better signal/picture using component cables. So go ahead and get it, then when you get the PS3 and the new DVD player, you'll already have the switcher in place ;) |
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