| Sportymonk |
Interesting article. Starts with Midsize SUV sales tanking due to price of gas. Comares how long SUVs sit on lots. Pilot sits the least. :D
http://www.wral.com/automotive/9405766/detail.html
Ditching SUVs: $3 Gas Leads To Tanking Sales
POSTED: 2:43 pm EDT June 21, 2006
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif. -- Nearly $3 a gallon gasoline appears to be taking a toll on midsize sport utility vehicle sales.
Some of the automotive industry's most popular models are midsize sport utility vehicles.
But J.D. Power and Associates said consumer demand for some other models in the segment is continuing a slide that started in January.
The auto information company said only full-size vans sat on dealership lots longer before being sold in May.
SUVs sat for an average of 73 days -- up from 67 at the start of the year -- compared with 80 days for full-size vans.
While some models in the segment, such as the Honda Pilot (46 days to turn), Toyota 4Runner (56) and Jeep Commander (56) were turning quicker than the industry average, others, such as the Mitsubishi Endeavor (140), Dodge Durango (118) and Kia Sorento (105), moved much slower.
Vehicles in the compact basic car segment spent just 35 days on dealer lots -- making them among the fastest-moving autos.
The rise in gasoline prices isn't the only factor, though. Power says a pull-back in incentives, income and family size also influence decisions.
The percentage of midsize utility vehicle owners who trade up to a large utility vehicle has declined since January as well, while the percentage of those trading to midsize conventional sedans has increased, J.D. Power said. |
|
|
| BubbleSparkxx |
| It's an interesting article - but keep in mind that Honda reduced pilot production by 12% in Feburary. Honda advised they were doing this to decrease inventory in preparation for a slow down. These numbers may not be indicative of actual demand compared to competitors, but rather better representative of demand vs. supply. |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by BubbleSparkxx
It's an interesting article - but keep in mind that Honda reduced pilot production by 12% in Feburary. Honda advised they were doing this to decrease inventory in preparation for a slow down. These numbers may not be indicative of actual demand compared to competitors, but rather better representative of demand vs. supply.
Plus Honda was offering substantial rebates really early this year. |
|
|
| ecsw |
| either way, that does mean honda is doing a good job in inventory control for Pilot, isn't it? :) |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by ecsw
either way, that does mean honda is doing a good job in inventory control for Pilot, isn't it? :)
An excellent job, but they are not making the same profit as previous years per unit so the story isn't all roses. If the production reductions bring demand in line with supply then they can eliminate the rebates and go back to making higher per unit profit margins. |
|
|
| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by BubbleSparkxx
It's an interesting article - but keep in mind that Honda reduced pilot production by 12% in Feburary. Honda advised they were doing this to decrease inventory in preparation for a slow down. These numbers may not be indicative of actual demand compared to competitors, but rather better representative of demand vs. supply.
I actually do think those numbers are indicative of actual demand, for any car company. people want a particular vehicle, they buy it, and therefore the car doesn't sit on the lot any longer. |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
I actually do think those numbers are indicative of actual demand, for any car company. people want a particular vehicle, they buy it, and therefore the car doesn't sit on the lot any longer.
It means that Pilot production numbers are closer to real demand than any other manufacturer, but Honda has achieved that through a reduction in production and offering significant incentives. |
|
|
| 01MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
It means that Pilot production numbers are closer to real demand than any other manufacturer, but Honda has achieved that through a reduction in production and offering significant incentives.
OK but exactly which SUV lines out there are not decreasing supply or offering incentives? If anything, Hondas incentives are probably less than many others such as Ford, Chevy, etc. Even the Subie Tribeca (in its first year) is going for several thousand below invoice according to what I have heard. It's definitely not like 2001 when I paid full MSRP for the MDX. |
|
|
| ramirami |
quote:
Originally posted by 01MDX
Even the Subie Tribeca (in its first year) is going for several thousand below invoice
bad example...thats a butt ugly car |
|
|
| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by ramirami
bad example...thats a butt ugly car
agree on that one. :p |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by 01MDX
OK but exactly which SUV lines out there are not decreasing supply or offering incentives? If anything, Hondas incentives are probably less than many others such as Ford, Chevy, etc. Even the Subie Tribeca (in its first year) is going for several thousand below invoice according to what I have heard. It's definitely not like 2001 when I paid full MSRP for the MDX.
Every other SUV out there could have the same or better "days to turn" if they cut production and offered incentives as early as Honda did this year. Honda was offering incentives on the Pilot way before most other mfgrs this year. They are practicing good inventory management. |
|
|
| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
Every other SUV out there could have the same or better "days to turn" if they cut production and offered incentives as early as Honda did this year. Honda was offering incentives on the Pilot way before most other mfgrs this year. They are practicing good inventory management.
somehow I don't think the mitsubishi endeavor, dodge durango, and kia sorento would get a better than honda turnover rate even if they cut production and provided massive incentives. just my opinion. :cool: |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
somehow I don't think the mitsubishi endeavor, dodge durango, and kia sorento would get a better than honda turnover rate even if they cut production and provided massive incentives. just my opinion. :cool:
That makes no sense. For example, If Mitsu sold 10,000 endeavors last year and were on track for 10,000 this year, but they cut production to say 5,000 and added incentives, they would have a very, very short turn time. It all depends what demand versus your production rate is. Honda is adjusting theirs according to good inventory practice. US manufacturers didn't adjust their forecasts/production levels in the previous years as demand waned and they got stuck with a lot of inventory. |
|
|
| PNW-Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
somehow I don't think the mitsubishi endeavor, dodge durango, and kia sorento would get a better than honda turnover rate even if they cut production and provided massive incentives. just my opinion. :cool:
I would agree the sales on the Outlandish are going strong. I don't recall if Dodge has a crossover SUV, but suspect they don't, it seems their quality issues and horrible milage figures are catching up to them. It was good to have Hemi before, but at $3 people are thinking twice.
For the KIA I think it's out of it's league and needs a redesign, I think next year is the new desgin, that cuts into sales also. Not to mention, it's underpoweredfor the engine size, and get worse gas milage also. Soemthing i fail to understand from KIA/Hyundai, 3.8L has 210 horsepower and 2-3MPG less then similar american or Japanese equal. I know they used to get engines from Mitsu, but still... |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by PNW-Pilot
Soemthing i fail to understand from KIA/Hyundai, 3.8L has 210 horsepower and 2-3MPG less then similar american or Japanese equal. I know they used to get engines from Mitsu, but still...
Likely a less efficient drivetrain design or heavier vehicles. Honda's V6 in the Pilot gets the equivalent real world mpg of my Chevy Silverado 5.3L that has significantly more torque/HP and pulls a heavier vehicle. |
|
|
| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
Likely a less efficient drivetrain design or heavier vehicles. Honda's V6 in the Pilot gets the equivalent real world mpg of my Chevy Silverado 5.3L that has significantly more torque/HP and pulls a heavier vehicle.
I can't decide if I'm impressed with the bowtie, or dissapointed in the honda. |
|
|
| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
That makes no sense. For example, If Mitsu sold 10,000 endeavors last year and were on track for 10,000 this year, but they cut production to say 5,000 and added incentives, they would have a very, very short turn time. It all depends what demand versus your production rate is. Honda is adjusting theirs according to good inventory practice. US manufacturers didn't adjust their forecasts/production levels in the previous years as demand waned and they got stuck with a lot of inventory.
what I'm saying is for them to get down to honda's numbers, it would take a drastic cut in production or major incentives. I just don't think they'll do such a big change, and therefore the turnaround time won't be better than honda's. remember, according to the article, we're talking about almost 100 days difference. maybe what I'm saying makes sense to you now? if not, oh well... ;)
reminds me of the pontiac aztec. nobody bought them. I think even if they made just 100 of them a year, their turnaround time would still be much higher than any other vehicle out there (assuming they don't give it away for free). |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
what I'm saying is for them to get down to honda's numbers, it would take a drastic cut in production or major incentives. I just don't think they'll do such a big change, and therefore the turnaround time won't be better than honda's. remember, according to the article, we're talking about almost 100 days difference. maybe what I'm saying makes sense to you now? if not, oh well... ;)
reminds me of the pontiac aztec. nobody bought them. I think even if they made just 100 of them a year, their turnaround time would still be much higher than any other vehicle out there (assuming they don't give it away for free).
And all I was pointing was that Honda did something positive to achieve those turn rates. All the other manufacturers can do the same thing to match that single metric based on their individual sales numbers. They currently haven't, so the turn rate cannot be matched immediately without drastic rebates, but it could be easily be matched in the future. The butt-ugly Aztec is an extreme case but it could easily show a fast turn rate. If demand was 1000/yr, then Pontiac just makes 800. Like the first year Pilots/MDXs where demand exceeded capacity, they would sell quick. The problem is usually that the sales forecasts are optimistic for most mfgrs except for Honda/Acura. H/A are usually very conservative and are only really suffering because the demand for SUVs is down. |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
I can't decide if I'm impressed with the bowtie, or dissapointed in the honda.
The EPA mpgs are 15/19 on the Silverado and18/24 on the Pilot. I get 14/19 out of both given the same driver/route/weather/etc. The Chevy is much closer to the EPA estimate. |
|
|
| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by ramirami
bad example...thats a butt ugly car
I disagree. It's got a nice butt, but a face only Garfield the Cat could love. |
|
|
| PNW-Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
Likely a less efficient drivetrain design or heavier vehicles. Honda's V6 in the Pilot gets the equivalent real world mpg of my Chevy Silverado 5.3L that has significantly more torque/HP and pulls a heavier vehicle.
I was thinking heavier vehicle, I think they weight like 500lbs more.
What do you get in your silverado. We averaged around 19mpg with our pilot. Best ever was 24.2. |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by PNW-Pilot
I was thinking heavier vehicle, I think they weight like 500lbs more.
What do you get in your silverado. We averaged around 19mpg with our pilot. Best ever was 24.2.
I posted above: "The EPA mpgs are 15/19 on the Silverado and 18/24 on the Pilot. I get 14/19 out of both given the same driver/route/weather/etc. The Chevy is much closer to the EPA estimate."
The specs are:
Silverado: 5300 lbs, 295 HP, 330 lb-ft
Pilot: 4500 lbs, 244 HP, 240 lb-ft |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
I disagree. It's got a nice butt, but a face only Garfield the Cat could love.
I came home and our neighbors have an Aztek in the driveway :eek: :16:. I really hope they didn't buy one and it's just visitors - I'd really hate to have to move . I'll have to go over and talk them about the neighborhood standards. |
|
|
| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
I came home and our neighbors have an Aztek in the driveway :eek: :16:. I really hope they didn't buy one and it's just visitors - I'd really hate to have to move . I'll have to go over and talk them about the neighborhood standards.
I saw one on the freeway a few times with a license plate "fuglie" on there. I'll try to snap a picture the next time I see it go by! :D |
|
|
| BubbleSparkxx |
| Totally OT - but the Aztek is truly the equilvalent of a Pacer / Gremlin. I think it's so bad, that it wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to buy one, drain the fluids, put it up on stands in a climate controlled garage, and save it as a future classic. I bet it will be worth a pretty penny someday waaaay in the future. |
|
|
| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
I saw one on the freeway a few times with a license plate "fuglie" on there. I'll try to snap a picture the next time I see it go by! :D
:claphead: It turned out to be visitors........I don't have to move. |
|
|
| PNW-Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by BubbleSparkxx
Totally OT - but the Aztek is truly the equilvalent of a Pacer / Gremlin. I think it's so bad, that it wouldn't be a bad idea for someone to buy one, drain the fluids, put it up on stands in a climate controlled garage, and save it as a future classic. I bet it will be worth a pretty penny someday waaaay in the future.
The Gemlin/Pacer is a ocllectors item? I can't believe that it would go for more then $1000 on ebay. |
|
|
| BubbleSparkxx |
quote:
Originally posted by PNW-Pilot
The Gemlin/Pacer is a ocllectors item? I can't believe that it would go for more then $1000 on ebay.
hehe - couldn't help but do a little research on ebay - here's
a Gremlin w/ a Buy It Now for $6800 - which is certainly more than what it was sold for new (including inflation).
And here's a Pacer thats currently at $5000.
Go figure. Only the real ugly ones and the real good looking ones become collector's items. |
|
|
|
