| humanoid |
Ripped from pcmag.com. A great article for those who were curious, but were afraid to ask.
By Dan Costa
It has been a long time coming, but the battle to replace the DVD has finally reached consumers. The consumer electronics industry is attempting to replace the millions of DVD players and DVD-ROM drives across the globe. The problem is it can't decide which format to replace them with: Blu-ray or HD DVD.
Each format has its own heavyweight industry backing. HD DVD is supported by Toshiba, Intel, and Microsoft, which will offer an add-on HD DVD player to its Xbox 360 game console this fall. Blu-ray is supported by Samsung, Pioneer, and Sony, which will build a Blu-ray drive directly into its upcoming PlayStation 3 game system, also available this fall.
The closest analogy is the VHS versus Betamax contest of the early 1980s, but the stakes may be higher now. PC Magazine has been following the story from the very beginning and can get you up to speed fast on what you need to know before you spend your money on either format.
Why should you care?
The short answer is: You don't want to buy an obsolete format. The two technologies don't work together, and it is very unlikely that both formats will survive. Both kinds of players will work with "old-fashioned" DVDs, but if you want a high-definition video experience on a disc, right now you will have to choose one or the other. The next PC you buy may come with the option to include either an HD DVD drive or a Blu-ray drive. And with standalone players selling for $500 to $1,000, guessing wrong could be expensive.
What is the difference?
Blu-ray has a capacity advantage, offering 25GB of storage on a single-sided disc and 50GB on a double-sided disc. HD DVD discs hold 15GB (single sided) or 30GB (double-sided). Although this would seem to give Blu-ray a significant advantage, 15GB is enough room—just barely—to fit a high-definition movie.
HD DVD players and drives are a lot cheaper than Blu-ray devices. Blu-ray players will cost between $1,000 and $1,500 at launch. Toshiba's first HD DVD player, the HD-A1, is being sold for just $500, and it has been available for more than two months.
Toshiba was first to reach the market with a high-definition video player, releasing the HD-A1 and the HD-XA1 ($800 street) last April. When PC Magazine tested the HD-A1, we found it to be very much a first-generation product, with a few bugs to be worked out. Still, there was no denying the excellent image quality it produced. And being first to market does give the format some advantage.
Samsung shipped its BD-P1000 Blu-ray player ($999.99 list) to retailers this week and will start selling them to consumers on June 25. It will be the first high-definition player to offer native 1080p support.
Sony and Pioneer will offer Blu-ray players in August and September, respectively. Both firms had hoped to have them out this month, but they had to push back their launch because of manufacturing problems.
Sony is also selling Blu-ray drives with two of its VAIO PCs, the VGN AR190G notebook and the VAIO VGC-RC310G. Perhaps the most interesting thing about these systems is that the drives can burn Blu-ray discs too.
Although it has a built-in HD DVD drive, the Toshiba Qosmio G35-AV650 ($2,999.99 direct) cannot record content onto HD DVDs. That and some issues with the video playback led us to be less than impressed with the system as a whole.
What can you watch now?
Right now, not much. HD DVD players have been out for a few months, so there are more titles available, 28 at last count. HD DVD titles list for about $35, but you can find them on Amazon for as little as $20.
The ones on the market now include Lethal Weapon, The Rundown, Happy Gilmore, 16 Blocks, The Perfect Storm, The Chronicles of Riddick, Constantine, Firewall, U-571, The Bourne Supremacy, Blazing Saddles, Van Helsing, The Fugitive, Cinderella Man, Training Day, Unforgiven, Full Metal Jacket, Jarhead, Assault on Precinct 13 (2005), Rumor Has It..., Swordfish, Goodfellas, Doom, Million Dollar Baby, Apollo 13, Phantom of the Opera (2004), Serenity, and The Last Samurai.
By comparison, there are just seven Blu-ray titles on the market now: 50 First Dates, The Fifth Element, Hitch, House of Flying Daggers, The Terminator, Underworld: Evolution, and xXx. Prices range from $20 to $30.
This seems lopsided now, but it will even out over time. "Eighty-four percent of all the movies released last year were made by studios that have announced support for Blu-ray," says Jim Sanduski, senior vice president of marketing for Samsung's Audio and Video Products Group. "That is a huge strike against HD DVD." To be fair, some studios plan to release movies in both formats. But as Sony is one of the developers of Blu-ray, it will not release its movies on HD DVD.
HD DVDs are cheaper to make. Because Blu-ray discs use a very different technology from traditional DVDs, manufacturers will have to retool their production plants, and those costs will have to be passed on to consumers somehow.
Who is going to win?
With just a handful of players and drives on the market, it is way too early to tell who is going to win this format struggle. Of course, that hasn't stopped the speculation. PC Magazine's Lance Ulanoff has a decidedly unambiguous take: In his column "Blu-ray Is Doomed," he argues that Toshiba will parlay its first-mover advantage into market domination. Toshiba did have a two-month head start, after all. He writes: "In our lightning-fast, high-tech world, two months is like the first two lengths of a four-length horse race. Can Blu-ray catch up? I don't think so."
John Dvorak wrote about "Picking a Winner" in his column a few months ago. In his opinion, this contest will take a few years to sort itself out, and consumers will suffer while it does. The best choice for shoppers, he says, may be to wait until there is a clear winner.
That certainly isn't ideal, but at least prices for both players will have come down a lot by then. |
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| jcantanixon |
If you ask me, I think HD DVD will win out simply because of it's name and how easily the consumer can recognize the significance. Everyone knows what a DVD player is, and HD has become a part of the language. Even people who don't know anything about HD DVD can figure out that it'll play movies with a better picture. Every commercial for an "HD"TV will subconciously promote the HD DVD format.
Meanwhile, what does Blu-Ray mean to the average consumer? Nothing, it doesn't even hint about it's function, and people will struggle to figure out that a Blu-Ray player is compatible with their "HD"TV.
It's a marketing issue, and unless Sony dumps a huge pile into advertising and market awareness, HD DVD wins hands down. |
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| jmeitz |
as a home theater installer part time I am telling my customers just to wait. Its not worth the risk to invest that kind of money if the dvd player will be obsolete in 2 years or so.
By the way if anyone in here needs a good deal on some theater stuff let me know.
www.webworxaudio.com |
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| jay |
I'm taking the Nancy Reagan approach: Just Say No!:p If I really want to see a movie, I catch the Friday matinee. With Jack Nicholson doing crap movies like "About Schmidt" and Keifer Sutherland doing a crap rip of 24 with "The Sentinel" I'll probably be even more restrained in doing that. I'll wait until it's on HBO-HD.
Even when they get the content there, I'm not doing it.
78s to 45s to LPs to 8-track to cassette to CD to dat to mp3 and beta to VHS to S-VHS and VHS to 8mm to hi-8 to mini-dv and 110 to 35mm to digital was enough for me. |
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| ramirami |
| its all Digital, so S/W based....say in a couple years both formats have nearly equal market share.... why cannot there be a new standard which would work with both?? |
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| Bill Balmer |
| I think the introduction of Sony's PS3 with the integrated Blu-Ray player will flood the market and make it extremely difficult for HD-DVD to keep up. I know MY kids are already saving up so they can get theirs at intro., and the backward compatability of the PS3 makes it the obvious choice for the millions of PS2 owners and thousands of existing PS and PS2 titles already on the market. The strength of the Playstation can't be underestimated in the market. |
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| ecsw |
I would vote for BlueRay.
Not just bigger in size, but Blueray has a little bit better encryption than HD-DVD. Not that I like that because it will be more difficult to make a backup, but most movie studios would preferred it becuase they dont want ppl to make copies. Even the current new release regular DVD, Sony is putting extra protection to stop ppl from making copies.
It also doesn't matter if HD-DVD came out first. Beta came out first before VHS, but VHS won the battle in the history.
But I would disagree with the "one must die" comment. we have DVD+, DVD- and DVD RAM in the market for such a long time. Sooner or later they will be companies willing to pay royalties to both format and make a "DVD writer" that does both BlueRay and HD-DVD. It's technically possible because the writing laser are both BLUE. :) And sooner or later, both of them will be under $50 just like they are with the current DVD burner. :2: |
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| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
Even when they get the content there, I'm not doing it.
78s to 45s to LPs to 8-track to cassette to CD to dat to mp3 and beta to VHS to S-VHS and VHS to 8mm to hi-8 to mini-dv and 110 to 35mm to digital was enough for me.
:19: |
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| CMasten |
| My opinion of this race is both will die.... and another, solid state memory technology will come along that doesnt require a physical disk to be spinning with one ver of encryption or another. By the time either side figures it out it wont be an issue. You wont need the local BlockBuster or Netflix to go to get a movie you will have enough bandwidth to just download it :) |
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| Scoobs |
quote:
Originally posted by ecsw
Even the current new release regular DVD, Sony is putting extra protection to stop ppl from making copies.
and failing miserably at it :D |
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| PNW-Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Balmer
I think the introduction of Sony's PS3 with the integrated Blu-Ray player will flood the market and make it extremely difficult for HD-DVD to keep up. I know MY kids are already saving up so they can get theirs at intro., and the backward compatability of the PS3 makes it the obvious choice for the millions of PS2 owners and thousands of existing PS and PS2 titles already on the market. The strength of the Playstation can't be underestimated in the market.
Good point. But the ps2 did nothing for the DVD format, what makes you think that PS3 alone will sell a format. Just look at what the PSP did for UMD, it's dying a slow death.
I'm on the wait and use DVD until a winner is pronounced. I think this is the worst thing for consumers. |
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| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by Scoobs
and failing miserably at it :D
well, it's not that bad. It does stop some newbies from making copies. I had quite a few friends stop "backing" up when the "new protection" DVD was out. :rolleyes:
I am sure it's just a matter of time that BlueRay/HD-DVD encryption to be broken. Anything Sony has come out, there are ppl breaking it. :2: |
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| Bill Balmer |
quote:
Originally posted by PNW-Pilot
Good point. But the ps2 did nothing for the DVD format
I disagree. In fact, I was watching this same thread on a different board recently and someone else made the point that the PS2 virtually single-handedly jump started the DVD format into common use. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I do believe that the PS2 played a role in boosting the popularity of DVD. |
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| BubbleSparkxx |
IMHO -
1. the Blu Ray / HD is meaningless until a majority of Americans have HD compatible sets. And barring a need to replace a TV, I know that I will not be purchasing a new HDTV until there is more hi-def programming (which includes over the air, cable/satellite, and DVD)
2. PS3 will have a positive effect on adoption of the format - but the main reason why the early adopters ppurchase the PS3 won't be for the new technology, but b/c its' a GAME CONSOLE.
3. The PS3 will not be a huge role player in either the gaming industry or the movie industry until it reaches a reasonable price point (which is not $599)
With rumours that the next HALO will drop the same day as the PS3 debut, along with a price drop for the 360, the PS3 is gonna have a heck of a time playing catch up.
Meanwhile, I'll just be happy watching DVDs on my 32" Sony Wega w/ v-compression. |
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| robottik |
I own an HDTV and like to watch DVDs. So here's my plan:
Right now, stick with my upconverting DVD player. Makes regular DVDs look near HD quality.
But even so, an HDTVs high resolution does show the limitations of regular DVDs.
So when player prices come down and there are more titles available, if possible I'll buy a universal Blu-Ray / HD-DVD player. None exist yet, but already companies are talking about making them.
PS - Wanna see some hardcore discussion on this topic? Head over to AVSforum.com. Those guys are nuts! ;) |
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| Bill Balmer |
quote:
Originally posted by BubbleSparkxx
IMHO -
PS3 will have a positive effect on adoption of the format - but the main reason why the early adopters ppurchase the PS3 won't be for the new technology, but b/c its' a GAME CONSOLE.
Agreed. My point being that many people who aren't specifically looking for a DVD player with HD capability will find themselves with one format already in their homes because they bought a PS3. Then when they do upgrade to an HD monitor, the choice will already be made - they won't buy an expensive HD-DVD player when they already have the Blu-Ray. Sony's backward-compatability with existing game systems will virtually guarantee the proliferation of the PS3 as a game system (I know OUR PS2 probably won't last much longer, and we have way too much invested in PS2 games to switch formats). The resulting piggy-back proliferation of Blu-Ray will be (well-planned) icing on the cake.
quote:
Originally posted by BubbleSparkxx
3. The PS3 will not be a huge role player in either the gaming industry or the movie industry until it reaches a reasonable price point (which is not $599)
Slight correction - true, the PS3 with a 60 Gig hard drive will be $599 at launch, but there will also be a 20 Gig version for $499. While that is certainly a lot of money, it's not out of line for any HD-capable DVD player currently on the market, and that's not even considering the game system that comes as part of the package.
Comparing the PS3 to the standard X-Box price-point is apples to oranges. The X-Box doesn't have ANY HD-DVD capability - that's going to be offered in the future at an additional price.
I predict the PS3 will sell like hotcakes. |
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| PNW-Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Balmer
I disagree. In fact, I was watching this same thread on a different board recently and someone else made the point that the PS2 virtually single-handedly jump started the DVD format into common use. I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I do believe that the PS2 played a role in boosting the popularity of DVD.
From that stand point I would agreee it help to boost the popularity, but it certainly was not the main factor. What helped was movies that people wanted, and also the low cost of players. |
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| PNW-Pilot |
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Balmer
Slight correction - true, the PS3 with a 60 Gig hard drive will be $599 at launch, but there will also be a 20 Gig version for $499. While that is certainly a lot of money, it's not out of line for any HD-capable DVD player currently on the market, and that's not even considering the game system that comes as part of the package.
Comparing the PS3 to the standard X-Box price-point is apples to oranges. The X-Box doesn't have ANY HD-DVD capability - that's going to be offered in the future at an additional price.
I predict the PS3 will sell like hotcakes.
I think that it will help the format, but your kidding yourself if you think the $500 version will sell. It will not have HDCP interface which is required to use 1080P, the benefit of the format. So you end up getting 720P without that interface. I truly doubt all but the hardcore will notice however. |
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| BubbleSparkxx |
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Balmer
Slight correction - true, the PS3 with a 60 Gig hard drive will be $599 at launch, but there will also be a 20 Gig version for $499. While that is certainly a lot of money, it's not out of line for any HD-capable DVD player currently on the market, and that's not even considering the game system that comes as part of the package.
I thought I read somewhere that the 20 gig version was also going to be missing HDMI. ..
quote:
Comparing the PS3 to the standard X-Box price-point is apples to oranges. The X-Box doesn't have ANY HD-DVD capability - that's going to be offered in the future at an additional price.
although the PS3 and the 360 are different beasts, the retail consumer is going to go to Wal-Mart 2 weeks before christmas and see a $499 PS3 w/ maybe 10 games at $60 each, sitting right next to a $299 360 w/ over 40 games ranging from $25 to $60 bucks. More than likely, the added feature of having blu-ray isn't going to be a deal breaker when you're talking about such a big price difference. And knowing MS, they'll more than likely make a HALO edition green hued 360 (bundled with Halo 360) and push it out the door for around $325.
quote:
I predict the PS3 will sell like hotcakes.
this is no doubt that the PS3 will put up some impressive sales figures - but i'm not sure if its going to sell that well right off the bat. |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Balmer
I know OUR PS2 probably won't last much longer, and we have way too much invested in PS2 games to switch formats). The resulting piggy-back proliferation of Blu-Ray will be (well-planned) icing on the cake.
Bah. I've only plugged in my PS2 once in the last year. How many of your friends and neighbors that have $2k + HDTV sets still play games on a game console regularly?
I think the target group that's going to buy the PS3 is significantly different than the target group that's going to decide on a High Definition DVD format. Go to a Blockbuster and take a look at the people renting games vs the people renting movies. |
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| Bill Balmer |
quote:
Originally posted by PNW-Pilot
the $500 version... will not have HDCP interface which is required to use 1080P, the benefit of the format. So you end up getting 720P without that interface. I truly doubt all but the hardcore will notice however.
Wow - Sony left that little gem out of their news release. I was unaware. This WILL make a difference to me, even though I don't consider myself hard core, since my HDTV won't accept a 720P input! :eek: |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by jmeitz
as a home theater installer part time I am telling my customers just to wait. Its not worth the risk to invest that kind of money if the dvd player will be obsolete in 2 years or so.
By the way if anyone in here needs a good deal on some theater stuff let me know.
www.webworxaudio.com
How about a good deal on one of those Digital Video Essentials DVDs, or whatever you use for calibrating HDTVs? I'll even take a copy of one ;) |
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| humanoid |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
How about a good deal on one of those Digital Video Essentials DVDs, or whatever you use for calibrating HDTVs? I'll even take a copy of one ;)
Do I smell group buy on the horizon? :2: |
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| rocky |
| Something tells me this is another technology competition I will successfully ignore for several years, without feeling left behind. |
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