| dustino8 |
quote:
Originally posted by btk467
On 2003 Pilot I had ~24mpg in the city (summer time)
I think the key here is the "summer time" comment. My mileage on my Pilot and Civic drops significantly in the winter months. I would estimate the drop to be about one third, just by looking at kms driven per tank. |
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| dknuth |
| I have a 2004 with 63K on it and have not gotten better than 23 mpg @ 60 MPH. At highway speed 19-20 is the best but remarkably, when towing my 17' Bass Tracker, I still get 17 MPG at highway speed. Cold weather just knocks the hell out of the mileage with 12-13 mpg common in city driving.:( |
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| quietdragon |
quote:
Originally posted by dknuth
Cold weather just knocks the hell out of the mileage with 12-13 mpg common in city driving.:(
Does anyone know the reason why cold weather increases fuel consumption assuming driving style and patterns remain the same? |
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| BigDozer66 |
quote:
Originally posted by quietdragon
Does anyone know the reason why cold weather increases fuel consumption assuming driving style and patterns remain the same?
The formulation of "Winter" gas causes a drop in MPG.
It takes longer for them to warm up to operating temperature which will cause the fuel mileage to suffer.
I find myself leaving the vehicle running more if it is really cold.:4:
BigDozer66 |
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| dustino8 |
quote:
Originally posted by BigDozer66
The formulation of "Winter" gas causes a drop in MPG.
It takes longer for them to warm up to operating temperature which will cause the fuel mileage to suffer.
I find myself leaving the vehicle running more if it is really cold.:4:
BigDozer66
There are a couple other reasons also. Everything that has to do with your vehicle moving is "stiffer" (ie tires, bearings, fluids, etc) so your engine has to work harder in order to move. At higher speeds, then denser air will result in more drag.
As BigDozer66 mentioned, the engine takes longer warm up, during which period the engine is burning a more rich mixture. |
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| jarizzo |
quote:
Originally posted by dustino8
There are a couple other reasons also. Everything that has to do with your vehicle moving is "stiffer" (ie tires, bearings, fluids, etc) so your engine has to work harder in order to move. At higher speeds, then denser air will result in more drag.
As BigDozer66 mentioned, the engine takes longer warm up, during which period the engine is burning a more rich mixture.
Also, since cold air is denser, there is more oxygen in one cylinder full of air, which means to keep the oxygen/fuel ratio right, it takes more gas per compression cycle. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jarizzo
Also, since cold air is denser, there is more oxygen in one cylinder full of air, which means to keep the oxygen/fuel ratio right, it takes more gas per compression cycle.
Yes, but it takes less mixture to get the same power! |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by dknuth
I have a 2004 with 63K on it and have not gotten better than 23 mpg @ 60 MPH. At highway speed 19-20 is the best but remarkably, when towing my 17' Bass Tracker, I still get 17 MPG at highway speed. Cold weather just knocks the hell out of the mileage with 12-13 mpg common in city driving.:(
You don't consider 60 MPH "highway speed"? |
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| BigDozer66 |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
You don't consider 60 MPH "highway speed"?
60 mph around here is "Slower traffic keep right" speed. ;)
If his speed limit is 70 mph then his highway speed would probably be 72+ mph.:4:
I know when we traveled (vacation with it loaded down) and our speed was 70+ our mileage dropped to 19.5 on one tank and 20.8 on the other tank.
That was on a round trip of 1000 miles or so and it was hilly terrain.
BigDozer66 |
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| jarizzo |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Yes, but it takes less mixture to get the same power!
That's also true, but at idle and coasting the overall fuel delivery is higher in winter. For the same RPMs, the PCM will deliver more fuel. In cold weather, the system takes longer to get to closed loop operation and runs slightly richer while in open loop. High-drain accessories like seat heaters, rear defrosters, and windshield defoggers that run the A/C also contribute. The power steering pump will have to work a little harder to pump cold fluid, as will the transmission. Combined with winter warm ups, I suspect these factors collectively contribute to lower winter mileage.
At high elevations, the air is thinner and there is less oxygen per cylinder full of air, thereby requiring less fuel per air charge. That's also why you will see 85 octane gas in the high elevations. There is less risk of detonation in the thinner atmosphere. I've definitely seen better mileage at high elevations. On one trip way up in Colorado, the 4Runner (4.7 V8) jumped from 12 MPG through Iowa and Nebraska towing the camper to 15 in the mountains around 7500-10000 feet. There were probably other factors contributing, but a 25% increase is significant.
I'm not sure about the stiffer tires factor. Here in Chicago I think there are only 2 gas formulations, summer and everything else. There isn't a winter formulation that I know of, but I'm not exactly in tune with the industry either. |
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| whizmo |
All factors, but someone made the point that since colder air is denser air, that the engine will automatically use more fuel to maintain the same A/F ratio, thus decreasing mileage.
This isn't correct. While colder air will require more fuel per unit of VOLUME, it will require the same fuel per unit of MASS, and the production of power is proportional to the mass of air/fuel mixture being consumed, not the volume. IOW, lin colder air, less throttle will be needed to maintain the same level of power, thus the amount of fuel consumed to produce any given level of power will be the same.
Another point: Most modern FI systems completely shut off the fuel during coasting. Unlike a carb, there is no residual idle mixture fuel being burned in coasting conditions. So when coasting, no fuel is consumed, so obviously this isn't affected by temperature.
But all the other factors (engine warmup, denser air causing more aero drag, more rolling resitance, thicker oil causing more friction in the engine, poorer traction in winter, etc.) are definitely factors in poorer winter fuel mileage.
I recall someone doing a study once about the reduction in winter mileage and the biggest factors were driving habits, not fuel formulations or air density considerations. In the winter, people tend to warm up the car for longer periods and take shorter trips because they're not driving as much, not driving for recreation, and not going on driving vacations. These two factors were the main ones in poorer winter mileage.
- Mark |
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| quietdragon |
quote:
Originally posted by quietdragon
That's consistent with my 12mpg city driving (short trips) with a new 08 Pilot. I haven't done the idle training and would be interested in your results.
Just came back from out of town, but forgot to re-fill before leaving. Anyway, with that mixed city/hwy tank, I got a more respectable 18mpg. (Still no idle training.) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
All factors, but someone made the point that since colder air is denser air, that the engine will automatically use more fuel to maintain the same A/F ratio, thus decreasing mileage.
This isn't correct.
Thank you. |
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| tim.s |
quote:
Originally posted by quietdragon
Just came back from out of town, but forgot to re-fill before leaving. Anyway, with that mixed city/hwy tank, I got a more respectable 18mpg. (Still no idle training.)
That's up from the 12mpg you've been seeing in town, correct?
Last week was the start of Spring Break season and traffic on the freeway was lighter. My commuting mileage went from 17.8mpg (previous week) to 19.1mpg (last week) due to better traffic conditions. I know I'm comparing two data points, but I thought it was interesting considering all other conditions were the same (same gas, same weather, same route, same driver, etc...).
It also shows that what each person considers "city" and "highway" driving can vary the mileage quite a bit. ;) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by tim.s
It also shows that what each person considers "city" and "highway" driving can vary the mileage quite a bit. ;)
Oh, come on!
You know everyone's City and Highway driving are exactly the same and should all match the EPA estimates within 1/2 a MPG. ;) ;) |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Another point: Most modern FI systems completely shut off the fuel during coasting. Unlike a carb, there is no residual idle mixture fuel being burned in coasting conditions. So when coasting, no fuel is consumed...........
- Mark
If this were true the engine would die of fuel starvation during a long downhill coast. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jdeanski
If this were true the engine would die of fuel starvation during a long downhill coast.
Uhhhh, No!
It is being turned by the transmission and the EGR is full open to keep the cylinders as hot as practical. |
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| quietdragon |
quote:
Originally posted by tim.s
That's up from the 12mpg you've been seeing in town, correct?
Yes, that's right. |
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| despling |
I just got this vehicle on Saturday 3/22. It is my 3rd Honda vehicle (95 Accord, 96 Civic HB). It replaced an 02 Chevy Impala. Now, I loved my Impala, it was a good car, leather, and all the trimmings. It consistently got 22-24 mpg, no matter how I drove it. If I wanted to squeeze a few extra mpg, I would go 65 on cruise and get 26-28 mpg. If I was doing a lot of idling and short-trips, I would get 17-18 mpg.
I completely agree with the general consensus of these posts. The Pilot is a great vehicle. Quality built, reliable. But it is an SUV. It will not likely EVER get 30+ mpg except with some advanced engine that hasn't been built yet (that gets more hp per unit of gas, or some hybrid).
It's a mass and aerodynamic thing (e.g. Physics). The faster you go, the more drag, the more drag, the more the engine works, the more it works, the more fuel it consumes. The same with weight. If you shove 6 adults inside, the mass will increase, as the mass increases, the engine works more...etc.
I have about 500 miles on this (280 I did myself). In that 280 miles of combined hwy/city, I have averaged 21.6 mpg. I maintained 65mph speed on the highway, and I did slow starts, easy braking - basically driving per most states' driver's manuals.
If I drive 75 in a 55 (which is what most traffic does), I expect to get worse mpg. If I am stuck in traffic stop & go, I expect to get worse mpg.
Painfully, the best mileage speed is around 45mph. That's when aerodynamic drag starts becoming a large component of the resistance. If you could drive 100+ miles at 45mpg constant (and not get honked at), you may see some surprising mpg figures (25+). |
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| tim.s |
quote:
Originally posted by despling
...Painfully, the best mileage speed is around 45mph. That's when aerodynamic drag starts becoming a large component of the resistance. If you could drive 100+ miles at 45mph constant (and not get honked at), you may see some surprising mpg figures (25+).
Yes, of course. Most vehicles get the best mileage when cruising at 45 mph.:29:
Unfortunately, we rarely get the opportunity.:28: |
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| soloredd |
I just hit 1,000 miles on my '08 Pilot I got in February. I also just took my first highway trip, myself and 3 friends went to Oakland for a Warriors game. It took a half-tank to get there, and I concentrated on keeping it at 70-75mph. I filled up before we left and a week later am still on that same tank, a bit less than half left.
Coming from a Civic to the Pilot, I told myself (and my fiance) that MPG is not in my vocabulary anymore. I knew what I was buying and what the costs would be. The only thing that I've changed is my driving habits, but this is more out of maturity than anything. Instead of running 80-85mph, I keep it around 70mph and instead of running until the fuel light comes on, I fuel up at 1/4 tank.
The big test will come next week when my fiance and I go to Tahoe to visit family. It's about 280 miles each way and we'll also have a lot of snowboarding/snow shoeing gear. If I can make it to near Truckee on that initial tank, I'll be happy. |
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| switch |
Last week I got back from a 6200km (3850 mile) trip down through the west coast and Arizona. About 10% was city driving. The highway driving averaged around 80mph. I kept a strict record and the overall gas mileage 19mpg (US gallons). When driving sections at 65mph, the gas mileage was noticeably better. At high speeds I would go about 360 miles on a tank, an at lower speeds that would go up to around 425 miles.
A couple things I noticed.
When using cruise control at low elevation, the engine doesn't increase RPM much when traversing through passes with moderate inclines. I was very pleased with how the Pilot cruised.
At the higher elevations, such as at Flagstaff, revs go up and highway speed acceleration takes a hit; the Pilot struggles, regardless of highway speed. The engine could do with better flow.
For an SUV, the Pilot handles really well on the highway. It's a pleasure to drive.
Some of the roads in California need serious work. The noise level on that coarse, I5 concrete is really annoying. Might as well be flying in a jet fighter. But on the smoother, black pavement the vehicle was really quiet, even at 85mph.
Highway drivers in southern Washington and most of Oregon are absolutely horrible.
Getting gas in Arizona is a pain in the butt. Is there some kind of a problem with people stealing gas in that state? |
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| ecsw |
it's getting better with my 30,000 miles 2006.
I used to get around 18~19mpg the best on hwy and last trip to Portland got me 20mpg. :) |
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| NorCO |
After two fill ups and 2 tank fulls of combined city/highways driving, we're getting abour 21-22 mpg and close to 400 miles per tank.
EAT IT!:D |
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| sski |
Switch does have a point on slowing down.
I drive my Nissan approx 900 km per week to and from work. Driving between 120-130 kmh I get less than 500kms per tank. Last week I started driving at 90kph/55mph (which apparently is the sweet spot for mileage). I'm now getting 600kms out of a tank. That represents 1 extra trip to work.
All the other hyper miler methods help, but most are not practical. If you can draft a truck, great, cuts wind resistance. The hypermilers get so close the could probably put the car in neutral and be pulled in the "wake". Another trick I read was to park in a spot where you can drive thru rather that backing or backing out. Theory is any fuel you burn backing up is not getting you to your destination (ie total loss).
Point is if you can get used to 55mph it does help. Another thing to try and watch for is keep note of a car you zip past on the highway or a car that zips past you. When you get off the highway, have a look around. They are 3 cars ahead or behind you waiting for the light to change...guess who burned more fuel for the exact same end result??
Fuel prices are never coming down. In fact, I predict they will simply continue to rise until the situation becomes "unpaletable (sp)". At which point people will be forced to make different choices and/or better technologies will become mainsteam. The technology could exist now but developing it into something viable is not yet a priority. Too many people making too much money in fossil fuels, still. Further, tons of people employed in the field. It will have to be a slow, deliberate change to new ways of thinking.
btw, I'm no treehugger. I have a car, SUV, jetboat, two snowmobiles, two ATVs, two houses...BIG carbon footprint...sigh... |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sski
. ..The technology could exist now but developing it into something viable is not yet a priority. Too many people making too much money in fossil fuels, still. Further, tons of people employed in the field. It will have to be a slow, deliberate change to new ways of thinking.
Don't worry, the technology does not exist yet (to make it affordable at today's oil prices), but it will as oil prices go up (making the alternative cheaper on a relative basis).
For all the "people making too much money in fossil fuels", there are lots who are not, (yet none of them have stumbled across the answer), |
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| tim.s |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Don't worry, the technology does not exist yet (to make it affordable at today's oil prices), but it will as oil prices go up (making the alternative cheaper on a relative basis)...
Very true, but that of course doesn't mean that fuel prices will ever go down. We will just have an alternative technology that has the same high price per mile as gasoline. Depending on the technology, it may one day become so readily available that our transportation costs could drop, but we could be years or decades away.
Up until a year ago, it was too expensive for natural gas companies to drill for gas in the Barnett shale that runs under much of this area. Pulling the natural gas out of the shale was cost prohibitive. But the increasing prices for oil and natural gas have made it "economically feasible" for the drilling companies to go after the NG in the shale. ("cheaper on a relative basis")
Of course, in this case, it won't lower the price of NG by increasing the supply, it only increases the supply of NG that can be sold at a steadily increasing price.
:( |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by tim.s
Very true, but that of course doesn't mean that fuel prices will ever go down. We will just have an alternative technology that has the same high price per mile as gasoline. Depending on the technology, it may one day become so readily available that our transportation costs could drop, but we could be years or decades away.
Up until a year ago, it was too expensive for natural gas companies to drill for gas in the Barnett shale that runs under much of this area. Pulling the natural gas out of the shale was cost prohibitive. But the increasing prices for oil and natural gas have made it "economically feasible" for the drilling companies to go after the NG in the shale. ("cheaper on a relative basis")
Of course, in this case, it won't lower the price of NG by increasing the supply, it only increases the supply of NG that can be sold at a steadily increasing price.
:(
The reason why you won't see prices drop (whether we're talking gasoline or NG) is because demand still exceeds supply. The increase in supply may temporarily slow price increases or drop prices, but until demand goes down over the long-term, prices will continue to increase. |
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| mainerunr |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
The reason why you won't see prices drop (whether we're talking gasoline or NG) is because demand still exceeds supply. The increase in supply may temporarily slow price increases or drop prices, but until demand goes down over the long-term, prices will continue to increase.
the reasons you wont see prices drop are speculators and the dollar having fallen off a cliff and by the time it catches back up again, china and india will be using even more petroleum products. |
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| tfrain |
I have been pretty lazy about checking my tire pressure in the wife's pilot due to the TPMS. I figured if one was low it would let me know. Well, I had a flat on my civic and after plugging it and reairing, I decided to check all the tires on both cars. Put the Civic's tires up to 36psi. Checked the pilot and they were all four at 30psi cold even though the door sticker says 32. I went ahead and aired them all up to 36psi, hoping to get a mile or so in mileage. We'll see. I told the wife to let me know how she rides with 36psi in the tires.
Freakin gas is getting high. We have already instituted the "no driving above 70 mph" rule in the Pilot. Seems to be helping some.
I told her we might sell it and go buy an element. They are very safe as well and get around 25 mpg. I think backseat passengers might even fair better in an element (IIHS said no risk of injury in element rear, in pilot, possibility of rib fractures). If I knew we weren't going to have more than 2 children I think I would definitely do that. |
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| tim.s |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
The reason why you won't see prices drop (whether we're talking gasoline or NG) is because demand still exceeds supply. The increase in supply may temporarily slow price increases or drop prices, but until demand goes down over the long-term, prices will continue to increase.
You are right, the price won't drop until demand drops. But the point of my analyogy was that the NG they are going after is more expensive to obtain - an expense that will obviously be passed onto the consumer. So even though the supply may catch up with or exceed the demand, the cost of the supply is higher than before (all the low hanging fruit is gone), so the cost to the consumer will remain high.
We will see similar situations with advanced automotive technologies. The days of $0.06/mile are gone until an affordable technology brings down the price of the fuel or extends our range to the equivalent of 60 mpg. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by tfrain
I told her we might sell it and go buy an element. They are very safe as well and get around 25 mpg. I think backseat passengers might even fair better in an element (IIHS said no risk of injury in element rear, in pilot, possibility of rib fractures). If I knew we weren't going to have more than 2 children I think I would definitely do that.
Was the IIHS referring to the Pilot's second or third row? |
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| tfrain |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
Was the IIHS referring to the Pilot's second or third row?
2nd Row - they did not test with dummies in the 3rd Row.
Click on this link for the IIHS Videos and Dialogue - I think it is free and you don't have to be a CR online subscriber. Then click on the 225 IIHS Videos link in the top left box. You can also check the IIHS website
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...calls/index.htm |
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| skeetersmom |
I have an 06 EXL-Res 4x4 I filled up in PA and drove to NC last month and I got 475 miles before the fuel light came on, my avg was 26.7 mpg. I was very happy.
Does anyone know how much gas is left in the tank when the fuel light does come on? |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by skeetersmom
I have an 06 EXL-Res 4x4 I filled up in PA and drove to NC last month and I got 475 miles before the fuel light came on, my avg was 26.7 mpg. I was very happy.
Does anyone know how much gas is left in the tank when the fuel light does come on?
It seems to be about 1 gallon to the "E" line and about 2 Gallons below that, and then a little spare that no one has the nerve to test. |
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| rocky |
quote:
Originally posted by skeetersmom
I have an 06 EXL-Res 4x4 I filled up in PA and drove to NC last month and I got 475 miles before the fuel light came on, my avg was 26.7 mpg. I was very happy.
Does anyone know how much gas is left in the tank when the fuel light does come on?
About 2.5 gallons. |
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| Shindig78 |
quote:
Originally posted by skeetersmom
Does anyone know how much gas is left in the tank when the fuel light does come on?
That reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where Kramer and a Saab salesman try to see how far they can go "past the slash" in a Saab 900 before it runs out of gas.
Go figure -- there's actually a website out there where people can rate how far they've gone past the slash in their own cars! There's even a page for the Pilot. You can check it out here:
http://tankonempty.com/viewcar/Honda/Pilot |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Shindig78
Go figure -- there's actually a website out there where people can rate how far they've gone past the slash in their own cars! There's even a page for the Pilot. You can check it out here:
http://tankonempty.com/viewcar/Honda/Pilot
Some people will study the least significant data!
There is no standard for the number submitted then they generate an average and standard deviation.
Can anyone say GIGO!!! :rolleyes: |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by skeetersmom
I have an 06 EXL-Res 4x4 I filled up in PA and drove to NC last month and I got 475 miles before the fuel light came on, my avg was 26.7 mpg. I was very happy.
Does anyone know how much gas is left in the tank when the fuel light does come on?
2.8 gallons according to the owner's manual (see page 67). |
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| switch |
quote:
Originally posted by skeetersmom
I have an 06 EXL-Res 4x4 I filled up in PA and drove to NC last month and I got 475 miles before the fuel light came on, my avg was 26.7 mpg. I was very happy.
Does anyone know how much gas is left in the tank when the fuel light does come on?
The gas gauge on the Pilot is a horribly inaccurate device. I'd never push it. |
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| tfrain |
quote:
Originally posted by switch
The gas gauge on the Pilot is a horribly inaccurate device. I'd never push it.
I'd agree with that. Our gas light had seemingly just come on one evening when we pulled up to a friend's house who lived on a hill. When I started the car up to leave, it sputtered and bucked like the engine was about to grenade. After a brief consideration (and freaking out a little about my brand new pilot having a problem) I let it roll back into the street and sit for a minute before restarting and drove away fine. And this wasn't a big hill by any means. Just a slightly sloped driveway. Be aware that when the light comes on, if you park on a hill with the back facing down hill you could have a similiar issue. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by switch
The gas gauge on the Pilot is a horribly inaccurate device. I'd never push it.
I disagree.
I find the gauge on both my Hondas to be extremely accurate and consistent.
I have judged this during over 18 tank emptying drives 800 miles drives. |
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| switch |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I disagree.
Then you're probably the only one who does so.
Just Google for gas gauge inaccuracies with Honda vehicles and you'll come up with a lot of hits. Example:
http://www.carsurvey.org/review_107361.html
When the needle on a gauge is at 1/2 full, or 1/2 full, then that is how much gas there should be left in the tank. With the Pilot, this is not the case. |
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| andyschneider |
quote:
Originally posted by switch
Then you're probably the only one who does so.
Just Google for gas gauge inaccuracies with Honda vehicles and you'll come up with a lot of hits. Example:
http://www.carsurvey.org/review_107361.html
When the needle on a gauge is at 1/2 full, or 1/2 full, then that is how much gas there should be left in the tank. With the Pilot, this is not the case.
'04 Pilot - gauge was spot-on
'06 Pilot - 1/2 tank results in a fill of 11 gals.
'07 freestyle - spot on - only at full, 1/2 and empty -otherwise it drops very unevenly to those points. Good news is that Ford chooses to give you a trip computer so you can digitally read gallons used (accurate) and the other calculations.
'05 Accord and '04 Civic - spot-on
andy |
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| BigDozer66 |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I disagree.
I find the gauge on both my Hondas to be extremely accurate and consistent.
I have judged this during over 18 tank emptying drives 800 miles drives.
The gauge on our '04 Accord and the one on our '07 Pilot are considerably more accurate than any other vehicle we have ever owned.
I drive around all over town after the light comes on if my wife isn't with me.;)
I will try to do a 'test' on it and see how far it will go after the light comes on.
BigDozer66 |
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| switch |
I'm not concerned about the light. If I go to a gas pump and fill up the tank (one of the American pumps that has the plastic shroud for sucking back the vapors) without any kind of topping up, the needle goes well past full.
I then get on the freeway and drive for a few hours, at the same speed, on pretty much flat terrain. The needle stays pegged to the right and doesn't move at all for almost 100 miles. It then starts to move, and gets to half a tank at about 260 miles. 140 miles later the needle is at about 1/16 of a tank and the empty light comes on.
If I filled up and got 200 miles to the 1/2 tank marker, and then around 170 or 180 miles at the 1/16th marker, then the gauge would be accurate. Having a gauge that moves slow in the first 1/2 thank and then faster in the last 1/2 tank is worse than an opposite behaviour.
This is not an uncommon problem at all in any Honda:
http://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...fuel-gauge.html
Honda tech tip:
http://www.autocarepronews.com/defa...e=art&id=87151& |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by switch
Then you're probably the only one who does so.
Just Google for gas gauge inaccuracies with Honda vehicles and you'll come up with a lot of hits. Example:
http://www.carsurvey.org/review_107361.html
When the needle on a gauge is at 1/2 full, or 1/2 full, then that is how much gas there should be left in the tank. With the Pilot, this is not the case.
How many times have you checked the mileage between the marks during steady highway driving?
I don't worry about 1/2 being exactly 1/2 a tank (and you don't know if it is or it is not unless you have run it out).
I have found the mileage between each of the marks to be VERY consistent. The confusion is the gas above "F" and the gas below "E". |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by tfrain
I'd agree with that. Our gas light had seemingly just come on one evening when we pulled up to a friend's house who lived on a hill. When I started the car up to leave, it sputtered and bucked like the engine was about to grenade. After a brief consideration (and freaking out a little about my brand new pilot having a problem) I let it roll back into the street and sit for a minute before restarting and drove away fine. And this wasn't a big hill by any means. Just a slightly sloped driveway. Be aware that when the light comes on, if you park on a hill with the back facing down hill you could have a similiar issue.
That doesn't really mean the gas gauge/low fuel light is inaccurate. Most (if not all) vehicles would have this same issue (due to the fuel moving to one side of the gas tank because of the incline).
That being said, I've noticed on both my Accord as well as my old Integra that the gas gauge is not linear (not sure if that's true about all cars). I've read that the gas gauge uses a float in the gas tank. If you think about it, once the float is at its highest point (needle pointing to F), there may be more space in the tank available which means additional gas can be added. When the gas is being used, until this additional gas is used, the float will continue to be at its highest point... so the needle will still be pointing to F. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
That doesn't really mean the gas gauge/low fuel light is inaccurate. Most (if not all) vehicles would have this same issue (due to the fuel moving to one side of the gas tank because of the incline).
That being said, I've noticed on both my Accord as well as my old Integra that the gas gauge is not linear (not sure if that's true about all cars). I've read that the gas gauge uses a float in the gas tank. If you think about it, once the float is at its highest point (needle pointing to F), there may be more space in the tank available which means additional gas can be added. When the gas is being used, until this additional gas is used, the float will continue to be at its highest point... so the needle will still be pointing to F.
And the gauge is run through the controller, so what the gauge shows is "interpreted" first.
If others would like to experiment, check the fuel between the marks. |
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| mainerunr |
18.8mpg on the first tank.
as for the fuel gauge, is it set up so that it shows empty before you get into the reserve or when it is empty? most recent vehicles I've driven show empty when they have ~3 gallons left (my truck is almost 4), this is so the people dont run out of gas.
who cares what the gauge says it's not like it's a precision instrument, it's probably close so when it's low, fill up, is it really that difficult, does it really matter that much?
my nissan goes something like this (for normal mileage)
at 3/4 I've gone ~110 miles
at 1/2 I'm up to ~210-220 miles
at 1/4 I'm at ~260-270 miles
and at E I'm around 320-330 miles
nowhere near accurate but it doesnt really matter
and if I fill up right then it takes 17 gallons (21.1 gallon tank).
havent really had time to see how the Pilot's gauge is for a couple reasons 1. I dont drive it that often, 2. we're only on our second tank.
I've got to think that it's in part because the tank is not square so a depending on the shape, it might drop faster near the bottom because there is less volume per unit of depth. |
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| lizzy40 |
| I get between 14 and 16 city driving. I would have liked it to be better because of how much gas costs. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by lizzy40
I would have liked it to be better because of how much gas costs.
I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree with that statement... regardless what people are getting for MPG. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree with that statement... regardless what people are getting for MPG.
I agree even if gas was cheap and/or free.
Why would you not want better mileage given all else remains the same. |
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| JungleJim |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I agree even if gas was cheap and/or free.
Why would you not want better mileage given all else remains the same.
Why not indeed.... |
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| tim.s |
quote:
Originally posted by Shindig78
...Go figure -- there's actually a website out there where people can rate how far they've gone past the slash in their own cars! There's even a page for the Pilot. You can check it out here:
http://tankonempty.com/viewcar/Honda/Pilot
Generally a bad idea with any modern vehicle. The fuel pump is an electric motor that runs all the time. The pump relies on the fuel in the tank for cooling. Consistently running past "E" or consistently running down to "E" can cause your fuel pump to burn up prematurely.
Even if it's covered under warranty, you are still out the time lost getting it fixed and most likely out the cost of getting it towed. If you are not under warranty, getting the fuel pump replaced will cost hundreds. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by tim.s
Generally a bad idea with any modern vehicle. The fuel pump is an electric motor that runs all the time. The pump relies on the fuel in the tank for cooling. Consistently running past "E" or consistently running down to "E" can cause your fuel pump to burn up prematurely.
Even if it's covered under warranty, you are still out the time lost getting it fixed and most likely out the cost of getting it towed. If you are not under warranty, getting the fuel pump replaced will cost hundreds.
I've never run out of gas, but I've often run all my cars until the gauge is below "E" on all my cars and have never had a problem. On my GS-R, I came very close once to running out of gas, as the car started sputtering while on the interstate. I was able to take the next exit and pull into a gas station without the engine dying. Otherwise, running it down to below "E" was the norm. I had my GS-R for almost 12 years, without ever having a fuel pump issue. |
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| ctobio |
quote:
Originally posted by tim.s
Generally a bad idea with any modern vehicle. The fuel pump is an electric motor that runs all the time. The pump relies on the fuel in the tank for cooling. Consistently running past "E" or consistently running down to "E" can cause your fuel pump to burn up prematurely.
Actually, I think this is crap.
The fuel pump is cooled by fuel traveling through it, not the simple fact that it is immersed in fuel. Fuel will flow through the pump as long as there is fuel in the tank, and in most fuel tank designs, the pump sits in a bowl whose fuel level is higher than the rest of the tank (else the pump would be starved on turns or inclines). I've disassembled fuel pumps before. Basically, in an in-tank pump, fuel travels through the motor itself- washing the armature, windings, commutator, brushes in fuel. The fluid traveling through the pump has a greater effect on cooling than simple immersion. There might be something to the fact that more fuel means more cooling capacity, but
Short of chronically running the pump dry, I doubt that regularly "not going below E or whatever" has any real effect on pump life. Fuel pumps will likely fail because of bearing failure or brush wear- the cooling advantage to being in a fuller tank will have little effect on extending the life of those components.
I've only replaced one fuel pump- and this was due to a known factory defect that led to premature brush wear. I regularly run to E on all my cars and fill up (else, I'd be filling up every other day) with no ill effects on my pumps. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by ctobio
Actually, I think this is crap.
The fuel pump is cooled by fuel traveling through it, not the simple fact that it is immersed in fuel. Fuel will flow through the pump as long as there is fuel in the tank, and in most fuel tank designs, the pump sits in a bowl whose fuel level is higher than the rest of the tank (else the pump would be starved on turns or inclines). I've disassembled fuel pumps before. Basically, in an in-tank pump, fuel travels through the motor itself- washing the armature, windings, commutator, brushes in fuel. The fluid traveling through the pump has a greater effect on cooling than simple immersion. There might be something to the fact that more fuel means more cooling capacity, but
Short of chronically running the pump dry, I doubt that regularly "not going below E or whatever" has any real effect on pump life. Fuel pumps will likely fail because of bearing failure or brush wear- the cooling advantage to being in a fuller tank will have little effect on extending the life of those components.
I've only replaced one fuel pump- and this was due to a known factory defect that led to premature brush wear. I regularly run to E on all my cars and fill up (else, I'd be filling up every other day) with no ill effects on my pumps.
It is crap; as told to me by an engineer for Bosch when we had a little conversation to get Ford to replace a fuel pump under an extended silent warranty (and pay a $200 towing charge).
Seems ford knew it was BS but was using the "you ran it low" line to get out of paying. Bosch was the OEM supplier had offered a recall and had already informed Ford that it was NOT the issue.
Ford chose not to take Bosch up on it and then tried to get the owner to pay when the pumps failed. (I would guess to make full retail on the repair instead of just the amount Bosch offered.) |
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| tfrain |
| well i had the wife slow down. the new rule is no driving faster than 70 or 75 if running late for somethig important - mileage on 4wd 07 is now right around 19 mixed. pretty satisfied with that. |
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| gitchies |
sure they suck, but really, we all complain but yet still run out and buy an SUV? Whats the point? I mean if you were looking for good gas mileage, it would be obvious a Honda pilot shouldn't be your first choice.
How do you think we canadians feel about gas...at a $1.30 per litre...3.785 litres to 1 gallon....
Great suv, i love it for what it is and not what it shouldn't be.
thanks
ben
Prob going to get bashed now as this is my first post.... |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by gitchies
sure they suck, but really, we all complain but yet still run out and buy an SUV? Whats the point? I mean if you were looking for good gas mileage, it would be obvious a Honda pilot shouldn't be your first choice.
How do you think we canadians feel about gas...at a $1.30 per litre...3.785 litres to 1 gallon....
Great suv, i love it for what it is and not what it shouldn't be.
thanks
ben
Prob going to get bashed now as this is my first post....
Great Post!!! :4:
(even if you are from Canada) ;);)
:2: :2: :2: |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by gitchies
sure they suck, but really, we all complain but yet still run out and buy an SUV? Whats the point? I mean if you were looking for good gas mileage, it would be obvious a Honda pilot shouldn't be your first choice.
How do you think we canadians feel about gas...at a $1.30 per litre...3.785 litres to 1 gallon....
Great suv, i love it for what it is and not what it shouldn't be.
thanks
ben
Prob going to get bashed now as this is my first post....
luxury SUV's with 4 cyl. engines do not get great mileage either. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
luxury SUV's with 4 cyl. engines do not get great mileage either.
I think "great" is relative. Comparing the gas mileage of an SUV and a compact car just because they have the same number of cylinders doesn't really make sense. The weight of the vehicle has a huge impact on gas mileage.
Acura RDX
17/22 MPG
3924 lbs
Honda Pilot EX-L 4WD
16/22 MPG
4544 lbs
Mazda CX-7 Sport AWD
16/22 MPG
3929 lbs
GMC Acadia SLE-1 AWD
16/22 MPG
4936 lbs
Honda CR-V EX-L AWD
20/26 MPG
3549 lbs
* Requested that it be added
Toyota Highlander Limited AWD
17/23 MPG
4321 lbs
* Added for comparison
I would say that the Pilot and RDX both offer average gas mileage for AWD/4WD midsize SUVs... as their MPG estimates are on par with most competitors. The Toyota RAV4, however, does get above average gas mileage for this class, but then again, it is also one of the lightest.
Toyota RAV4 Limited 4WD I4
20/25 MPG
3512 lbs
Toyota RAV4 Limited 4WD V6
19/26 MPG
3675 lbs
Hybrid SUVs put their gas mileage estimates into what I would consider "excellent" for this vehicle size, but I don't think there are any hybrid SUVs that have AWD. |
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| switch |
quote:
Originally posted by gitchies
w do you think we canadians feel about gas...at a $1.30 per litre...3.785 litres to 1 gallon....
Great suv, i love it for what it is and not what it shouldn't be.
thanks
ben
And instead of paying $33K for a Pilot, we get to pay $50K. :(
The vehicle costs a lot. The 100K KM service is $1000. Paying $4 for a gallon of gas is down on the list of my expenditure concerns. |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
I think "great" is relative. Comparing the gas mileage of an SUV and a compact car just because they have the same number of cylinders doesn't really make sense. The weight of the vehicle has a huge impact on gas mileage.
Acura RDX
17/22 MPG
3924 lbs
Honda Pilot EX-L 4WD
16/22 MPG
4544 lbs
Mazda CX-7 Sport AWD
16/22 MPG
3929 lbs
GMC Acadia SLE-1 AWD
16/22 MPG
4936 lbs
I would say that the Pilot and RDX both offer average gas mileage for AWD/4WD midsize SUVs... as their MPG estimates are on par with most competitors. The Toyota RAV4, however, does get above average gas mileage for this class, but then again, it is also one of the lightest.
Toyota RAV4 Limited 4WD I4
20/25 MPG
3512 lbs
Toyota RAV4 Limited 4WD V6
19/26 MPG
3675 lbs
Hybrid SUVs put their gas mileage estimates into what I would consider "excellent" for this vehicle size, but I don't think there are any hybrid SUVs that have AWD.
Can you revise and add the crv also ?. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
Can you revise and add the crv also ?.
The CR-V is actually considered a compact SUV, which is why I didn't include it originally. Here's the info for it though...
Honda CR-V EX-L AWD
20/26 MPG
3549 lbs.
Basically it's comparable to the RAV4 I4. |
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| switch |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
The CR-V is actually considered a compact SUV, which is why I didn't include it originally. Here's the info for it though...
Honda CR-V EX-L AWD
20/26 MPG
3549 lbs.
Basically it's comparable to the RAV4 I4.
Here in Canada the CR-V is rated at 26mpg city, 36mpg highway. If you do the conversion for the smaller US gallon, it works out to 21mpg city, 29 highway.
Our measurement criteria must be different. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by switch
Our measurement criteria must be different.
Yes, of course.
Your beer is better so the person doing the measuring was drinking more.
But our measurer was more careless because he was worried about his healthcare. |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
But our measurer was more careless because he was worried about his healthcare.
So, let me see if I understand this. Our measurer was Ted Kennedy, and he had come to realize if we had "universal Canadian" type healthcare here he'd still be waiting for his surgery? |
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| switch |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Yes, of course.
Your beer is better so the person doing the measuring was drinking more.
But our measurer was more careless because he was worried about his healthcare.
I don't know about your measurer being careless, but you are correct about our beer being better. |
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| sjlee |
Interesting story on the news last night...
They had a segment about trucks and SUV sales being slow right now due to the high gas prices. One woman they interviewed was complaining because she was trying to sell her Ford pickup and has been unsuccessful even though she has it listed lower than blue book value. The reporter continued with the story stating that dealerships are also having a tough time selling vehicles that get (relatively) low gas mileage.
They then talked about how Dodge is trying to lure customers with their $2.99/gal gas promotion.
The final statement in the story...
The woman who was trying to sell her Ford pickup was trying to sell it so she could buy a Dodge SUV and take advantage of the $2.99 promo.
:rolleyes: |
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| BigDozer66 |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
Interesting story on the news last night...
They had a segment about trucks and SUV sales being slow right now due to the high gas prices. One woman they interviewed was complaining because she was trying to sell her Ford pickup and has been unsuccessful even though she has it listed lower than blue book value. The reporter continued with the story stating that dealerships are also having a tough time selling vehicles that get (relatively) low gas mileage.
They then talked about how Dodge is trying to lure customers with their $2.99/gal gas promotion.
The final statement in the story...
The woman who was trying to sell her Ford pickup was trying to sell it so she could buy a Dodge SUV and take advantage of the $2.99 promo.
:rolleyes:
If she thinks she is having trouble selling a Ford F series just wait until she tries to sell any Dodge!:4:
I hear people saying they are going to sell their vehicle (that is paid for) because it gets 18 mpg's. Then they say they are buying something that gets 22-24 mpg's but they will have a $400.00+ dollar a month note.:rolleyes:
BigDozer66 |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by BigDozer66
If she thinks she is having trouble selling a Ford F series just wait until she tries to sell any Dodge!:4:
I hear people saying they are going to sell their vehicle (that is paid for) because it gets 18 mpg's. Then they say they are buying something that gets 22-24 mpg's but they will have a $400.00+ dollar a month note.:rolleyes:
BigDozer66
I guess they can justify a car payment, but not more frequent fill-ups. :confused: |
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| N_Jay |
| How did we get to be such a great country with so many obviously stupid people? :rolleyes: |
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| GreenMachine |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
How did we get to be such a great country with so many obviously stupid people? :rolleyes:
Good question.. Especially when you look at the majority of Congress.. :bonk: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by GreenMachine
Good question.. Especially when you look at the majority of Congress.. :bonk:
And the people who vote them into office. |
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| homergreg |
We bought our Redrock 03 Pilot in June of 02, the day the Pilot was introduced. Our second son was on the way, and we often traveled several hundred miles as a family when my work required training. The Pilot was a great vehicle, returning 17 to 22 mpg for years.
Then we traded in the 03 for an 07 expecting a similar experience. The 07 had a lot of improvements over the 03, but mileage was not one of them. The very best we would get would be right at 20 mpg on long interstate trips, and that wasn't too bad, but in town we got 12 to 15, and lately it was even worse.
The 07 was still a very nice reliable vehicle, but the changes to improve power over the years were at a cost, and sadly with the direction gas prices are going, it was time to downsize. I was able to get a decent trade in on it, (More than what we owed, it's still a Honda!!) and get a smaller CUV that I can only hope that we get the same kind of enjoyment as we got out of our Pilots. |
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| pilotnc |
| I just completes a 4,200 mile trip from Asheville, NC-Frisco,CO-Sedona AZ. Towed the bike the whole way. Averaged 19.1 MPG. Trailer & bike about 1,000 pd's. small tires. I did put 1,000= miles on the bike. Stayed under 70 MPH when the limit was more otherwise at the posted speed limits or a little under. |
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| Sportymonk |
Buick is running ads (one was on just now) about how the 08 Luicerne can get 25 mpg and go 450 miles on a tank of gas! Well BIG DEAL!
I have an 05 Pilot that gets 18 around town, 20-21 on highway trips and on long vacation trips with just interstae, I get 24 mpg. Even taking the 22 mpg figure, that means the Lucierne gets 3 mpg better. BIG WHOOP!
I can haul 1500 pounds of lime and fertilizer, Buick can't do that. I can haul two teens, four adults and luggage for the two teens for two weeks to the airport with everybody in comfort (including the adult in the back third row (my wife, she's a little shorter than the rest)). Buick can't do that. I have yet to need to use the roof rack or Thule bag and I have taken several long trips.
If Buick/GM thinks 25 is great then we need to quit gripping as we can do almost as good and can certain do more things.
Do I wish my Pilot got better mileage like my wife's Civic? Yes. Am I unhappy enough to think about trading? NO WAY! I like the overall capabilities I have and the comfort.
I will just keep on happily Piloting :roadtrip: :2: |
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| switch |
quote:
Originally posted by Sportymonk
Buick is running ads (one was on just now) about how the 08 Luicerne can get 25 mpg and go 450 miles on a tank of gas! Well BIG DEAL!
It is a big deal - for Buick! |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
How did we get to be such a great country with so many obviously stupid people? :rolleyes:
You only need a few intellectuals to make a country great, also a lot of potential leaders are afraid to get elected because they are afraid of checked past in their "youth-full" days will come to light. |
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| switch |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
You only need a few intellectuals to make a country great, also a lot of potential leaders are afraid to get elected because they are afraid of checked past in their "youth-full" days will come to light.
If you're intelligent and a leader, you can have a less stressful job and make 100 times the money in the corporate world.
In the US you are lucky in the talent you get for your politicians. If you see what we get... |
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