| ecsw |
I went to 2nd service today for my Pilot. Dealer charges $80cdn to change VTM-4 fluid and $40cdn for Tire Rotation. I can get tire rotation for free form Kal-Tire (famous Canadian tire shop) and I decided to just change the oil and since I remember reading on the forum that VTM-4 fluid was easy to change, so I decided to do it myself.
It's is very simple for the whole procedure and it took around 30 minutes or so.
Here is the picture for the procedure. I hope this will help some of us to change the fluid without getting ripped off. ;)
First, locate the bolt which is rigth in front of the spare tire. It's pretty easy to get and i have some cardboard on the floor. |
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| ecsw |
| remove the top filling bolt as told by other members from the forum. |
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| ecsw |
| Remove the drain bolt. Be careful with this as the fluid might shoot out quite far when first removed. |
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| ecsw |
| 3/8" drive ratchet wrench as told from another thread to remove both bolts. |
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| ecsw |
| Both bolts were removed. |
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| ecsw |
| VTM-4 Fluid bought from dealer. $40cdn. |
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| ecsw |
| Hand pump for pumping fluid. $2 cdn from Daiso ($2 dollar store in Richmond, BC) |
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| ecsw |
Yes, I understand some of you might ask me if I changed the crashable wash. No, i didn't because i didnt realize that was necessary when I got my VTM-4 fluid from the dealer. They didn't bother to tell me either. I re-used it this time and I think I will get it for next time. However, the washer looks as new still. Not sure why it's necessary to change. :confused:
I have only change oil once in my life time and found this is even easier than changing the oil since you don't even have to worry about the filter. I do change the oil on my scooter and love to DIY with a lot of things around the house. ;) But if I can do it, I am sure most of you can do it too. ;)
Again, hope some of you can be benefited from this post. :4: |
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| Sunday Rider |
Very nicely done ecsw:7:
Great job with the job and pictures. You are right is so much easier than an oil change.
Too bad we don't have Kaltire out here!
So when are you doing the tranny fluid change. It is easy too!
By the way did you find any metal on the magnet attached to the drain plug?
By the way, but I am sure you know. Don't use that pump for any other fluid than VTM, not even tranny fluid. |
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| humanoid |
| Very nice job and thanks for the pics! |
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| jcantanixon |
The copper washer is a "crush" washer and is supposed to compress a little bit when you tighten it, to create a good seal. It's a good habit to replace them to prevent leaks because you can't "uncrush" it to use it again. Of course, the sealing surface and the bolt are usually pretty flat and you can get away with reusing the washer without a leak.
Personally, if I forget to buy a washer when I'm at the dealer, I just make sure to flip the old one over. This method is not recommended for underwear.;) |
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| robottik |
Thanks for the thread... Nice work.
Quick question... Is it necessary to drive the car a bit to warm up the fluid first, so it drains better? |
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| ecsw |
thanks all. :)
Sunday Rider,
really? why no pump other than VTM-4 fluid? I might try transmittion fluid when it's required. how often is it? I didn't try any magnet with the plug. Why?
jcantanixon,
hehehe... I was thinking about flipping it. But by the time I got the drain plug down, it drops to the oil drain pan and I can't tell which side it was. :p I would buy new one next time for sure. ;)
robottik,
I had about 30 minutes driving before I drain the fluid. But be careful with the muffler as it might get hot to touch. When I drain the fluid, it was warm to touch and I do think it would drain faster when warm. |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by ecsw
thanks all. :)
Sunday Rider,
really? why no pump other than VTM-4 fluid? I might try transmittion fluid when it's required. how often is it? I didn't try any magnet with the plug. Why?
jcantanixon,
hehehe... I was thinking about flipping it. But by the time I got the drain plug down, it drops to the oil drain pan and I can't tell which side it was. :p I would buy new one next time for sure. ;)
robottik,
I had about 30 minutes driving before I drain the fluid. But be careful with the muffler as it might get hot to touch. When I drain the fluid, it was warm to touch and I do think it would drain faster when warm.
Sunday Rider meant that now that you used that pump for VTM fluid, make sure you label or store it so in the future you use it again, only for VTM fluid. You want to use a separate, different pump for each fluid that needs one, and don't mix them, to avoid fluid cross-contamination. |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
Sunday Rider meant that now that you used that pump for VTM fluid, make sure you label or store it so in the future you use it again, only for VTM fluid. You want to use a separate, different pump for each fluid that needs one, and don't mix them, to avoid fluid cross-contamination.
Thanks Jay , sorry ecsw I wasn' t clear. I had a shop use the same pump he used for automatic fluid, and when he put VTM fluid in my car with that pump, there was a grinding noise when I made tight turns. I went back and then drained the VTM fluid, used a clean pump, the condition went away. I put my pump in a bag, and use only for VTM fluid.
The drain plug has a magnet on the end of it. When you pull it out, you can see if there is fine metal attached (attracted) to it. You can see from your picture, but it looks clean. Maybe when you took out you used a cloth to clean it up for the picture. Next time, just check to see what is on it. Same thing with the automatic tranny drain plug, you have a magnet there too. |
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| ecsw |
| icic. :) Yes, for $2cdn a pump, I am sure I will buy a seperate one for my tranny oil. Thanks for reminding. :) |
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| raymondaecom |
Hi, How much of VTM u need to do the job? one gallon or two?
thanks |
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| Aru4mie |
quote:
Originally posted by raymondaecom
Hi, How much of VTM u need to do the job? one gallon or two?
thanks
You just need 3 quarts more or less.
Unfortunately its sold by the gallon only. |
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| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by Aru4mie
You just need 3 quarts more or less.
Unfortunately its sold by the gallon only.
yes, i have about 1 qt left. so, 3 changes will get me one "free" change. :2: |
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| jlee2070 |
quote:
Originally posted by ecsw
yes, i have about 1 qt left. so, 3 changes will get me one "free" change. :2:
Unless this stuff has a "shelf" life??? Like brake fluid, once exposed to "air" you are supposed to use it up and not store it for a long time and use again... |
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| crvrefuge |
Thanks for the great pix, I'll change my VTM at about the 8,000 mile mark just for good measure, I've had Honda tranny prblems in the past (2002 CRV auto dead at 56K) I'm going to try and keep all fluids, oil, tranny & VTM very fresh in the 2006 Pilot, this one gotta last a long while.
BTW what sort of scooter do you have?
thank,
the CRV refuge |
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| redn22 |
quote:
Originally posted by jlee2070
Unless this stuff has a "shelf" life??? Like brake fluid, once exposed to "air" you are supposed to use it up and not store it for a long time and use again...
Can someone confirm if there is indeed a "shelf life" for the VTM fluid? I have about 3/4 of VTM fluid saved up from my other 3 VTM fluid changes that I done at home... Can I use that or should I buy a fresh jug?
Also, can someone confirm if 3/4 of a jug is enough to fill the Differential?
Thanks! |
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| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by crvrefuge
Thanks for the great pix, I'll change my VTM at about the 8,000 mile mark just for good measure, I've had Honda tranny prblems in the past (2002 CRV auto dead at 56K) I'm going to try and keep all fluids, oil, tranny & VTM very fresh in the 2006 Pilot, this one gotta last a long while.
BTW what sort of scooter do you have?
thank,
the CRV refuge
I have a 2002 Yamaha BW's (Zuma in US). Bought it used to go to work which is about 5 miles away from my house. :)
This is not mine, but it looks the same. :)
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| john802 |
quote:
Originally posted by redn22
...Also, can someone confirm if 3/4 of a jug is enough to fill the Differential?
Thanks!
You need ~.70 gallon of vtm-4 fluids to do the differential fluid change. |
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| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by jlee2070
Unless this stuff has a "shelf" life??? Like brake fluid, once exposed to "air" you are supposed to use it up and not store it for a long time and use again...
this might be true. I better dig up more on this topic. |
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| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by redn22
Can someone confirm if there is indeed a "shelf life" for the VTM fluid? I have about 3/4 of VTM fluid saved up from my other 3 VTM fluid changes that I done at home... Can I use that or should I buy a fresh jug?
Thanks!
My friend's theory is as long as the lid is closed it should be fine. Oil will not lose its viscosity unless applied to heat or extreme friction.
I also have an idea. Everytime we change the fluid, we use the one left over from previous change and whatever extra from the new one.
for example, 1st change has 1/4 left. use the 1/4 left over in the 2nd change and 1/2 from the 2nd new bottle. then 3rd change use 1/2 left over from 2nd change and 1/4 from 3rd new bottle. 4th change, use the 3/4 left over from 3rd change. :4: Does this make sense? :D |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by ecsw
My friend's theory is as long as the lid is closed it should be fine. Oil will not lose its viscosity unless applied to heat or extreme friction.
I also have an idea. Everytime we change the fluid, we use the one left over from previous change and whatever extra from the new one.
for example, 1st change has 1/4 left. use the 1/4 left over in the 2nd change and 1/2 from the 2nd new bottle. then 3rd change use 1/2 left over from 2nd change and 1/4 from 3rd new bottle. 4th change, use the 3/4 left over from 3rd change. :4: Does this make sense? :D
That is what I do. Wish the tranny fluid came in the gallon or 4 litre jug too.
EDIT:
I also squeeze as much air out the container to keep it "fresher" |
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| crvrefuge |
hi ecsw,
scooters are a lot of fun, I've had an Elite 80 then the Reflex 250 and currently have a Silverwing 600. The Silverwing has lot's of add-ons, and we take it on two or three day long trips in the 600+ mile range. I would post some pix, but that's my wifes area of knowledge, I'm lucky just to post.
the CRV Refuge |
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| whizmo |
Dot 3/4 and 5.1 brake fluid is hygroscopic (attracts water vapor when exposed to air), so that's why you change it and why you need to avoid having stored brake fluid exposed to air.
Having said this, it is going a bit overboard to throw away new brake fluid in a sealed bottle just because the it has been momentairly exposed to air. If the cap seals tightly, the amount of moisture the brake fluid can attract in the small parcel of air in the bottle is exceedingly small. I suppose it might become significantly if you opened/closed the bottle tens of times, but under normal circumstances, there is no reason not to continue to use brake fluid that has been kept in a airtight bottle.
I don't know for certain, but I'd be amazed if VTM4 fluid was hygroscopic. Assuming that it is not, the shelf life of the fluid should be very long - virtually indefinite - provided it has been stored in a reasonable place and kept in a sealed container.
Don't go overboard when you hear things on the net - this is not the space shuttle we're working on here, or even a Ferrari. It's a common everyday car and requires only reasonable care.
- Mark |
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| jay3 |
| how often do you all change your vtm fluid? i've not had a car or suv which had vtm fluid. what about the tranny fluid? for my old car i changed the tranny fluid every 30k miles...i heard some were doing it at 20k and others at 40k...so i just took the average. |
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| humanoid |
| Look in your driver's manual for both of your questions. You should either fall in the SEVERE or NORMAL category. Most will fall under the normal category. |
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| AParamedic |
Thanks to the original poster for the detailed instructions!
For those of you who are meticulous about torque specs, the fill and drain bolts should be torqued to 47 N-m or 35 ft-lbs |
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| zhscar |
Changed it this weekend. Very easy. Since I don't have a torque wrench, I just tightened it pretty hard while still beneath the car. The next morning I noticed a little red drop hanging on the bolt, but no spot on the ground, so gave it a lttle tap with a piece of wood and all seems fine since then.
Thanks OP and others for the great instructions. By the way, where do you guys recycle the VTM-4 fluid? Do places like AutoZone that collect engine oil also take this? Thanks. |
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| ecsw |
crvrefuge : it's a lot of fun for sure.
Whizmo : well put.
jay3: I think ot mentioned in the manual. it's usually 8000 miles if drive in extream condition
or 16000miles if VTM4 hardly come up. Maintenance minder will tell you exactly when. :)
zhscar: I am not sure about US, but a lot of Canadian gas station has recycling for used oil. |
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| jay3 |
quote:
Originally posted by ecsw
jay3: I think ot mentioned in the manual. it's usually 8000 miles if drive in extream condition
or 16000miles if VTM4 hardly come up. Maintenance minder will tell you
thanks ecsw...i read part of the manual over the weekend (tried not to be lazy for once :D ) |
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| TheRanger |
Well, I'm a moron because I didn't check the maintenance schedule close enough to realize this vehicle requires more mainenance than any ordinary car, so I have never realized I need to change the VTM-4 fluid. I better stop by the Honda dealer today and get some of that fluid .... I wonder what problems could occur by my negligence now...
(I'm willing to bet though the Dealer did do a VTM-4 fluid change when they had my vehicle for the tranmission recall (they didn't replace tranmission, just added the oil jet kit) but regardless I'd be definitely due again) |
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| humanoid |
quote:
Originally posted by TheRanger
Well, I'm a moron because I didn't check the maintenance schedule close enough to realize this vehicle requires more mainenance than any ordinary car, so I have never realized I need to change the VTM-4 fluid. I better stop by the Honda dealer today and get some of that fluid .... I wonder what problems could occur by my negligence now...
(I'm willing to bet though the Dealer did do a VTM-4 fluid change when they had my vehicle for the tranmission recall (they didn't replace tranmission, just added the oil jet kit) but regardless I'd be definitely due again)
How many miles do you have on your current VTM-4 fluid? |
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| TheRanger |
quote:
Originally posted by humanoid
How many miles do you have on your current VTM-4 fluid?
Well there's 48k miles total. I beleive I went in to get the oil jet kit installed somewhere around 15k, so assuming the dealer changed the fluid during that service it might be 33k. |
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| ecsw |
| :eek: holy! 33k? wow. That's quite a lot of miles without VTM-4 fluid change. better change it soon. :) |
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| ikkoku |
| for those of you who have done this, how do you know when it's filled enough. do you let it overflow? or do you just estimate 3/4 of the of the full bottle? |
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| smurray |
| Just keep pumping fluid in until it starts to overflow. |
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| humanoid |
| Ditto what smurray said and drive it around the block a couple times and open up the filler plug again and make sure to fill it up until it overflows again. |
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| mthomas |
I don't know about 33k miles being too long. I just changed at 17k, elapsed, (2nd change). I couldn't tell the difference between old and new.
As I recall, the first change there was a significant difference between old and new, but not this time. If this were a transmission, I'd say the change interval of 15K was too conservative, based on fluid appearance. |
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| whizmo |
My '06 maintenance reminder system is calling for a VTM fluid change at 10K (2nd engine oil change). I was suprised it's that early. Is this normal?
I was going to have the dealer do it, but with these instructions, I'll give it a go - looks simple enough.
- Mark |
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| Gullwing |
While changing the VTM fluid in the differential of my 04, a pair of rubber tubing (tubes?) fell off the top of the differential. Anyone know what these are for?
I didn't have time to trace them, but they are about 1/8-in dia and held in parallel by a clip. The end of one tube is open. The end of the other tube has a piece of white plastic that's in the shape of an L so that the plastic sticks our at a right angle.
Could they be some sort of venting tubes? Or should they be connected to something? The vehicle seems to run fine.
Thanks, |
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| mthomas |
Sounds like some sort of 'breather' (vent) tube. A picture would help. Did it fall completely out, or just the tube flip down?
In any event sounds like they should be replaced, and located above any likely water line. I wouldn't mount the opening vertically (up), minimizing the possibility of trapping falling debris. |
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| Gullwing |
The tubing pair flipped down from the top of the axle, but I placed it back on top.
I tried to find a drawing in the Pilot service manual, but didn't see anything like it. I'll take a photo tonight when I get home.
Thanks, |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Gullwing
While changing the VTM fluid in the differential of my 04, a pair of rubber tubing (tubes?) fell off the top of the differential. Anyone know what these are for?
I didn't have time to trace them, but they are about 1/8-in dia and held in parallel by a clip. The end of one tube is open. The end of the other tube has a piece of white plastic that's in the shape of an L so that the plastic sticks our at a right angle.
Could they be some sort of venting tubes? Or should they be connected to something? The vehicle seems to run fine.
Thanks,
Perhaps it is this part on the left picture? |
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| Gullwing |
Sunday Rider,
I didn't have a chance to get underneath last night - too much water on the ground from a rain. The tubing in the picture looks too thick compared to what I saw. The internal diameter was about 1/16-in, and there were actually two rubber-like tubes that were held in parallel with a clip. Will try again tonight for a photo.
Thanks for the picture reference. I'll look for that vent tube, too. |
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| Gullwing |
Mthomas and Sundayrider,
You're right. The tubing looks like vent tubing. I was way off in recalling the tubing size. Now I've got to get underneath again and re-attach the ends. See attached pix. |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by Gullwing
Mthomas and Sundayrider,
You're right. The tubing looks like vent tubing. I was way off in recalling the tubing size. Now I've got to get underneath again and re-attach the ends. See attached pix.
Thanks for the pic, let me know if you need me to crawl under and see how mine is connected. I don't recall seeing those tubes last time I did the VTM4 fluid change. |
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| Gullwing |
Sunday Rider,
The tubes were laying along the cross frame that's on top of the differential housing. Somehow I accidently grabbed them and the ends fell down when I was getting leverage to turn out the filler hole plug. It's easy to lay them back along the cross frame and they seem to stay there.
I think a mirror would be helpful to see what kind of connections might be on top of the differential. Time and weather permitting, I'll try to get under there tonight. |
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| Gullwing |
Sunday Rider,
I found the problem with help from Tim Poliniak and a technician at Ray Laks. They thought it might be a disconnection from the right side under the gas tank. Sure enough, there was a two-hose segment coming down from the gas tank on the right side just after the cross frame. One of the hoses had a plastic right-angle connector just like the one on the longer set of hose in my previous photo. The longer set is supposed to go under the cross frame, and with the right-angle connectors, attach to the short set coming from the gas tank.
The first photo shows how they should be connected. You should see someting similar on your Pilot. The second photo shows the hoses pulled down slightly so you can partially see the plastic right-angle connectors.
The clips do more than hold the hoses together; they have a plug that attaches the clip and hoses to a hole in the cross frame. The third photo shows my finger and thumb pointing to the clips, which are set in smaller holes than the ones you see in the cross frame.
Now, I think that the hoses were disconnected some time ago or weren't connected at all. As they are connected now, they are too far away from the differential to get in the way and accidently be pulled down. |
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| Gullwing |
| Photo 2 attached. |
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| Gullwing |
| Photo 3 attached. |
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| Sunday Rider |
Gullwing
Thanks so much for posting those pictures. I will check my set up too.
Wondering how yours got disconnected, or were they ever connected.
Tim is a great guy always going that extra mile no matter what.
Cheers, |
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| 2muchfun |
Thanks for this thread!
I just did the VTM-4 fluid change on the rear end and it was absolutely simple thanks to this write up :)
I did pay Honda the small ransom of $13.00 for a hand pump..... that was priceless during the procedure.
I will add:
Being that I have the full size spare, it was much easier to just drop it down and push it aside than work around it. |
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| ctobio |
I just did the VTM-4 fluid in my '06 Pilot, and it was quite easy.
This was the first change (13k miles, and the maintenance minder lit up B16), so one thing that was noteworthy- the drain plugs were tightened at the factory to the point that I needed to use my 1/2" breaker bar on them. I retightened them to the proper torque specification (37ft-lb) per the factory repair manual.
I bought a small hand pump at Pep Boys for $8 that threaded onto the jug of fluid I got from Honda, so I'm just going to store it like that with the pump in the bottle, since I'm not going to use this pump on any other fluid lest I contaminate it. The pump really made the job a lot easier. I did indeed use nearly 3 quarts.
And yes, with the full size spare, it's easier to just drop the spare and get it out of the way. I also did the MDX subframe mod while I waited for all the fluid to drain. |
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| ExiledinIN |
Has anyone replaced the fluid w/ a redline fluid or any other type of synthetic?
Is the Honda VTM fluid a mineral or synthetic? |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by ExiledinIN
Has anyone replaced the fluid w/ a redline fluid or any other type of synthetic?
Is the Honda VTM fluid a mineral or synthetic?
Not sure if it is synth or mineral, BUT this is one fluid I wouldn't mess with. I had a bad experience where the pump used to put the VTM fluid in the case, was also used for tranny fluid. The VTM would grind whenever I took a tight turn, took me a while to figure it was the recent fluid change.
I changed it once more with a pump that was used only for the VTM fluid, and it went away. So just be careful with this. |
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| humanoid |
quote:
Originally posted by ExiledinIN
Has anyone replaced the fluid w/ a redline fluid or any other type of synthetic?
Is the Honda VTM fluid a mineral or synthetic?
No and no. The VTM-4 system is not meant to be used with any other fluid other than the Honda VTM-4 fluid. The VTM system is not a typical rear differential system and thus only uses the Honda fluid. You can use regular diff fluid if you're in a bind, but you will need to replace the fluid ASAP and replace it with the Honda fluid or you will fry your VTM-4 system. |
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| PolishSumgai |
I got the fluid at the dealer and went under the car to remove the drain and fill plugs. I can not budge them with a 3/8" ratchet or breaker bar. Any suggestions?
Thanx |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by PolishSumgai
I got the fluid at the dealer and went under the car to remove the drain and fill plugs. I can not budge them with a 3/4" ratchet or breaker bar. Any suggestions?
Thanx
Are you doing it with the spare wheel out of the way? Once you get under it, you should be able to get it with the breaker bar.
If you are doing all this and still not getting it, try a longer bar to give you the leverage you need.
Make sure you take the filler plug out first, just in case you get the drain plug off, and cannot get the filler off (learned this one the hard way once). |
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| 5Gs |
| I just changed mine recently. it is on very tight. I held the ratchet in place and gave the handle a good whack to loosen it. didn't need to remove the spare tire. |
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| andyschneider |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
I just changed mine recently. it is on very tight. I held the ratchet in place and gave the handle a good whack to loosen it. didn't need to remove the spare tire.
I agree with the "give it a good whack" method. Many times, tapping the wrench with a hammer or mallet will loosen bolts like this (including lug nuts), whereas trying the long-handled "lean on it" approach many times breaks the wrench, the nut/bolt, or both.....
andy |
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| dontnomuch007 |
Thanks to all the helpful info here, I was able to replace my VTM fluid a couple of weeks ago. I too had a hard time getting the bolts off. I ended up using a wrench and a piece of metal pipe attached to the handle to get more leverage to loosen the bolts. I also removed the spare tire to make access to the bolts easier.
When I purchased my VTM fluid and washers at the dealer, the person at the parts department said both the fill and drain washers were the same size. So I tought nothing of it, but of course I find out they are different sizes. I ended up just reusing the old washer on the drain.
Now I just need to drop off the old fluid at a nearby Jiffy Lube where they recycle old oil. |
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| iwc |
| Does anyone know how much fluid to replace for and how would you measure that with using a hand pump ????? |
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| iwc |
| Does anyone know how much VTM fluid needs to be filled for this change ? how do you measure this using the hand pump ? |
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| dontnomuch007 |
quote:
Originally posted by iwc
Does anyone know how much VTM fluid needs to be filled for this change ? how do you measure this using the hand pump ?
It was about 3/4 of a gallon and you just pump until it overflows. |
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| RSD |
Just did it the other day and i think i may have a problem
i bought a handpump and to make sure i didnt ocntaminate the VTM4 fluid i pumped some out into an extra container to make sure there was no debris in the pumps tubes
when i open the filling bolt fluid did come out, my driveway is not 100% level but it is pretty good if you park it at the right spot
so i filled it up until the fluid spilled out a bit, closed the diff bolt and drove around teh block once.
came back and then drove the back wheels onto a wooden block about 3 inches high so i could get some more fluid in.
now when i reverse, stop, put it into drive, and give it gas, it feels a bit sluggish
i dont know if it was overfilled from the first fluid change which was done at a dealership or if i filled it up too much.
am i being paranoid or should i park the pilot somewhere level and drain some fluid until no more come out of the filler bolt |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by RSD
Just did it the other day and i think i may have a problem
i bought a handpump and to make sure i didnt ocntaminate the VTM4 fluid i pumped some out into an extra container to make sure there was no debris in the pumps tubes
when i open the filling bolt fluid did come out, my driveway is not 100% level but it is pretty good if you park it at the right spot
so i filled it up until the fluid spilled out a bit, closed the diff bolt and drove around teh block once.
came back and then drove the back wheels onto a wooden block about 3 inches high so i could get some more fluid in.
now when i reverse, stop, put it into drive, and give it gas, it feels a bit sluggish
i dont know if it was overfilled from the first fluid change which was done at a dealership or if i filled it up too much.
am i being paranoid or should i park the pilot somewhere level and drain some fluid until no more come out of the filler bolt
I don't think that overfilling it would cause that sluggishness. What happens when you turn the wheel to the extreme left and right and go slowly? Do you hear any strange sounds? Also do the VTM lock procedure, just go slow and in a straight line for a short distance cycle it on and off a few times. You have to be stopped and in L1 or L2 before you press the VTM button to engage it, but can turn it off while driving. Sorry to insult you by asking, but the parking brake is off?
I over fill mine the same way you did, and haven't had a problem. You used the Honda VTM4 fluid I assume.
Last thing when you put it in Neutral is the car easy to push? |
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| RSD |
yep the parking brake is off
i left it on once while backing out of my driveway a few months ago and nearly soiled myself thinking why is it not rolling on its own power hehe
tomorow i will see what happens with the steering fully left or right and going slow
and i will also try putting it into 1 and 2 and using VTM4
but you arent supposed to do that on pavement right? so driving onto the lawn should be fine?
for the neutral that is fine, i was waiting for a friend and threw it into neutral to see if it still rolled down his driveway that teh same speed it used to. but i will double check that |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by RSD
yep the parking brake is off
snip...
but you arent supposed to do that on pavement right? so driving onto the lawn should be fine?
snip
You lock the VTM4 on wet pavement. That is why on dry pavement you should go straight, so there is no stress on the system.
Did you do any other repairs at the same time as changing the VTM4 fluid?
It is odd that it would do this after a fluid change. Wondering what else is going on to cause this.
I guess the last thing would be to let out some fluid and see if that helps, but I doubt it. At least it would eliminate it from being a possiblity. |
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| jon316 |
Aside from sounding like a dime-store novel detective, where are the jack points and jack stand points for the Pilot? (From Helm manual, not the owner's manual.) The unibodies are kinda picky about where you touch them. (Please, no RTM's; I don't have the Helm manual, yet.)
I didn't want to start a new thread for this simple question. Please forgive is this is out of place. |
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| slugmike |
do you need to jack the car up to do this?
or do you just crawl under there? |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by slugmike
do you need to jack the car up to do this?
or do you just crawl under there?
Just crawl under, but it is easier if you drop the spare tire and get it out of the way. That way you can get at the fill plug with more muscle if you need to open it.
Good time to clean out the grunge on the spare as well. |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by jon316
Aside from sounding like a dime-store novel detective, where are the jack points and jack stand points for the Pilot? (From Helm manual, not the owner's manual.) The unibodies are kinda picky about where you touch them. (Please, no RTM's; I don't have the Helm manual, yet.)
I didn't want to start a new thread for this simple question. Please forgive is this is out of place.
There are two main jack points. You will see them in the front and back around the middle, those are for getting the axles of the ground. There is a thread here somewhere.
The wheel jack points are just behind the front wheel well, and just in front of the back wheel well. You can see there is a kind of a bend and thickening of the sheet metal. I have also used the "fake" I beam where is is flat. I think near the rear it tends to curve, so I have not used it there.
If you get under and look you will see what I mean. I just used them on weekend to lift the Pilot up and take off the snow tires. Good luck
Here's a link where it lifted at a shop, gives you some ideas
http://www.hondapilot.org/forums/sh...p?threadid=7528 |
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| jon316 |
quote:
Originally posted by Sunday Rider
The wheel jack points are just behind the front wheel well, and just in front of the back wheel well. You can see there is a kind of a bend and thickening of the sheet metal. I have also used the "fake" I beam where is is flat. I think near the rear it tends to curve, so I have not used it there.
Here's a link where it lifted at a shop, gives you some ideas
http://www.hondapilot.org/forums/sh...p?threadid=7528
Thank-you for the reply, and the link. I've always had to exercise caution when using floor jacks and jack stands on a unibody, and I was hoping (like on my Jetta) there were some alternate points. I deformed a jack point on my Miata, once. I'm going to install the MDX rear brace retrofit this weekend. |
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| PhishingPhreak |
Knocked out my first VTM fluid change yesterday.
Thanks to HP.org and its members for the great DIY instructions.
Two small issues I had:
1) Breaking free the bolts. This was solved with a cheater bar.
2) The pump I bought, is a "grease gun" style pump/suction apparatus. The chamber only holds 16oz, so it took several fillings to refill the fluid.
That being said, when I spoke to the Honda parts guy, he advised that at his shop they only remove one of the plugs, then suck all the fluid out, and just pump the refill back in.
One last thing, my 2005 Pilot, had crush washers on each plug, which the parts guy didnt know. He thought there was only one on the drain. I replaced both of course.
:2: :eek: :2: |
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| nighthawkpilot3 |
Hey all,
Another good fill method is to have an inexpensive tube which screws right on to the jug. You can get these at Advance Auto or other places. They work on quarts too. Just put on like you would a cap. The part is two-piece - one is the clear tube and one is the "cap" which has has a black and a red section. They turn and allow you to shut off flow. So, you can turn the whole jug upside down with no fluid release until you open it. You can then squeeze out all the fluid you need. I find it better to pour off some into another container, but you dont have to. I usually have a part of a jug and just guesstimate what I will need. And yes, it is about 3 quarts. Keep filling until it drools out. Obviously, best to fill slowly, especially toward the end. On the washer, as I posted in another thread about Trans fluid change on an 03, turning them over works great. If you get confused on which way, just feel for a groove on the inner part of the washer. If you cant feel one, then it doesnt matter. The whole reason to turn it is to have a flat side against the case and allow the bolt to flatten the washer on its side. Also, the rear dif and trans drain plugs take the same washer. Buy a few and oil ones next time you order from wherever you get parts - like Majestic Honda, Bill Kay, H and A, etc. Rear dif fluid recycles just like ATF and motor oil and it doesnt matter if you mix them for recycling. |
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| AznSlumLord |
| Took care of this today and it was pretty simple. The hardest part was getting the bolts off (used breaker bar + pipe). Besides that, it just took a little time to pump the fluid back into the rear diff...very easy DIY job though and definitely saved me some money since I just got reemed from a dealer brake job :3: |
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| nighthawkpilot3 |
| Those things have a tendency to seize - the plugs and especially the caps. I have found that a good torque wrench works well because of the length. The key is to give it a rocking or a snap - this works sort of like an impact wrench would and it breaks it loose. |
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| mprince |
quote:
Originally posted by nighthawkpilot3
I have found that a good torque wrench works well because of the length.
Length is the key to leverage, but I would use a 3/8" breaker bar to free the bolts - ratcheting tools (esp a sensitive torque wrench) should not be used to break bolts free if you want them to last. |
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| nighthawkpilot3 |
| Yeah. You are right about the torque wrench or any other ratcheting tool. It does aid with the leverage because of the length, and the rocking or snapping applies even with a breaker bar or whatever you use. |
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| andyschneider |
quote:
Originally posted by nighthawkpilot3
Those things have a tendency to seize - the plugs and especially the caps. I have found that a good torque wrench works well because of the length. The key is to give it a rocking or a snap - this works sort of like an impact wrench would and it breaks it loose.
I just went and did the VTM4 and tranny fluid drain/fills this weekend, and on each one I just used my normal 10 inch 3/8 ratchet to loosen all of the bolts - just tap the end of the handle with your hand several times in a sharp fashion, and they just pop open. I've found that with these alloy drain "bolts", if you try to use a breaker bar and use leverage to pop them open, it puts a lot more stress on the bolt/socket area, and you risk stripping or breaking. Quick taps on a wrench are typically enough to pop them open, even lying on your back with a spare tire staring you in the face. :2:
andy |
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| Sunday Rider |
quote:
Originally posted by andyschneider
I just went and did the VTM4 and tranny fluid drain/fills this weekend, and on each one I just used my normal 10 inch 3/8 ratchet to loosen all of the bolts - just tap the end of the handle with your hand several times in a sharp fashion, and they just pop open. I've found that with these alloy drain "bolts", if you try to use a breaker bar and use leverage to pop them open, it puts a lot more stress on the bolt/socket area, and you risk stripping or breaking. Quick taps on a wrench are typically enough to pop them open, even lying on your back with a spare tire staring you in the face. :2:
andy
Funny, last time I did the quick tap thing, I skinned my knuckels on the full size spare. So now I take it down and clean it too before I do the VTM4 fluid change. Amazing how pain, makes you take the extra step:D |
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| andyschneider |
quote:
Originally posted by Sunday Rider
Funny, last time I did the quick tap thing, I skinned my knuckels on the full size spare. So now I take it down and clean it too before I do the VTM4 fluid change. Amazing how pain, makes you take the extra step:D
So when I loosened the fill and drain plugs, I did it from in front of the rear suspension (while lying on my back), so the full-sized spare didn't come into play. However, when getting ready to fill the unit back up, I quickly realized I could either cuss and swear for 15 mins as I tried to jockey the gallon jug with pump into spots few and far between, or remove the spare and have an easy time of it. Guess which I chose? :cool: Made it a much easier task! When i did it on the '04, it had the small spare and you had enough room to do things without removing the tire - but the full sized spare just took up toooo much room.
andy |
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| number1italian |
Thanks for this great DIY. I am always looking for ways to keep from using the dealer.
Does anyone know the torgue for tightening the VTM-4 drain & fill bolts? The parts guys stated that the crushable washers are important to keep you from stripping out the threads.
:) |
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| k_alavi |
I changed the VTM-4 fluid on our 2005 Pilot yesterday.
Fairly easy job, specially with the hand pump that I bought from schucks.
I wanted to reply to this thread to make two points.
1- I did not need a ratchet extension. There was enough room behind the metal brace and in front of the differential fill bolt so I was able to use my ratchet by itself. So you may want to try that.
2- A few membere have mentioned that they actually had to top off the differntial after a refill and after driving a few miles. So I had to verify that. I opened the fill bolt and I too was able to add some more fluid to top it off. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that when we drain the fluid, there maybe some air pockets left after the refill. So when we drive a few miles that the differential relieves itself (sort of speak) of the air pocket and there is more room to top off.
Thanks every one contibuting to this thread and to the entire forum. |
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| pilotnc |
| I did the change at 115K. First time was around 20k. It was a little dirty but my stealer said if was it going bad/needed changing it would get noisy. |
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| pilotnc |
| Its a lot easier to remove the 2 drain plugs with a 1/2' drive with a 3/8" reducer attached. |
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| 75blazer |
quote:
Originally posted by pilotnc
Its a lot easier to remove the 2 drain plugs with a 1/2' drive with a 3/8" reducer attached.
Is there a reason why you couldn't just use an impact wrench to get the bolts out? Obviously you wouldn't want to use it to put them back in, but what's the harm in using one to break them loose? |
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| rocky |
quote:
Originally posted by 75blazer
Is there a reason why you couldn't just use an impact wrench to get the bolts out? Obviously you wouldn't want to use it to put them back in, but what's the harm in using one to break them loose?
It shouldn't need an impact wrench. Proper leverage is all it requires |
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| 75blazer |
| Did the VTM fluid swap yesterday. EASY thanks to the posters here! I did modify the process a little in that I re-used my filler bolt crush washer while I did the drive around before topping it off. After topping it off I then put on the new crush washer. Total time do do this and the cabin filter replacement (plastic was already cut) was just over 1 hour including the drive around. |
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| godzilla |
| Did this morning along with the tranny and engine oils. Total time for all 3 a little over an hour. I will say that getting the VTM bolts off required some mean bench pressing leverage. Found a nifty funnel at advanced auto for 4 bux and inversted the tip that came with it and it fit the fill tube perfectly. One less screw to remove Great write ups and thanx to all. I am now a DIY'er. |
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| PhishingPhreak |
quote:
Originally posted by godzilla
Did this morning along with the tranny and engine oils. Total time for all 3 a little over an hour. I will say that getting the VTM bolts off required some mean bench pressing leverage. Found a nifty funnel at advanced auto for 4 bux and inversted the tip that came with it and it fit the fill tube perfectly. One less screw to remove Great write ups and thanx to all. I am now a DIY'er.
Well, the first time I did this a while ago, I had some trouble, but finally broke the bolts loose. Today, no love. Used a cheater bar, to no avail. Any other thoughts on breaking them loose? I thought I left them loose enough. Maybe they seized up do to the heat?
I would hate to have to pay the dealer, cause I know even if I say keep them loose for me, they will be on tight... |
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| ctobio |
I used an 18" long breaker bar to do mine. Was shocked I needed to apply that much torque.
How about shooting the drain plug with an upside-down can of air duster? This might shrink the metal enough to cause it to break loose from the threads. |
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| Sunday Rider |
Did you take the spare tire out?
The first time I used a breaker bar and a 14" pipe that fit outside the bar for more leverage.
If that doesn't work, then tap the beaker bar with a hammer. Sometimes it needs that little extra.
I use just enough to snug it when finished, slide your hand halfway up the wrench so you have less leverage and less likely to overtighten. Use a new washer too. |
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