| Mcsierra |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
You can be the first with a Turbonator! :D
I have seen people mention the Turbonator! a lot on this site... My friend owns a Performance shop and actually gave me one of them for the F150. It was installed and removed with a month. It made a slight Tone difference but other than Sound it did Nothing.!!!
As far as the CAI goes, I did read the post from "Pilots Wife" and will probably go with something similar... I have the intake from my old Camry and will use that as a base to modify it to fit in the Pilot. |
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| Luwin1026 |
| It seems that the closest offering for our Pilots is the short ram available from Fujita5 for the Ridgeline that just might fit the Pilot. But as a short ram is pretty straightforward, if you have a little creativity and resources I'm sure you can build you own for significantly less than the $200+ they charge for the Fujita one. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Luwin1026
It seems that the closest offering for our Pilots is the short ram available from Fujita5 for the Ridgeline that just might fit the Pilot. But as a short ram is pretty straightforward, if you have a little creativity and resources I'm sure you can build you own for significantly less than the $200 and change they charge for the Fujita one.
And it will work just as well (not at all):rolleyes: |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
And it will work just as well (not at all):rolleyes:
Right, but it'll be cheap and noisy;) |
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| mmmmark |
Painting flames on the hood will increase power by at least 45 hp.
Then adding a air deflector which will cut wind resistance by 50%.
and of course Wilson Wong's pad sets will decrease rolling resistance, wind noise and out-of-warranty repairs.
NOW, by my calculations, leaving my vehicle idling in the driveway, the fuel gauge actually shows the levels INCREASING. |
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| rhinoman |
Your forgot that for every sticker you add to the vehicle you will increase dyno proven wheel horsepower. 1-2 hp for a basic sticker, 3-4 for a sticker from a company that doesn't even make parts for your car and if it is a real JDM sticker they are good for at least 5whp each!!!
But seriously, be wary of a CAI on a truck, I may be speaking out my @%$, but others I have seen all pull air from the fender well. Great on a car but if you actually plan to take your truck off road, through any water including wet snow, puddleing rain, etc., you're asking for trouble. Guaranteed, you will suck up a little water eventually which is bad....I'm speaking from first hand experience......Stick with a more factory setup designed to drain off injested water before it enters the engine. The best route on a stock to mildly modified engine is to replace the restrictive stock air element and clear any rough or restrictive airflow in the stock set up. Air flow through a modern intake setup is usually not a concern until hp numbers are raised substantially like with the addition of turbo or other larger power adding NA mods.... |
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| ctobio |
quote:
Originally posted by Mcsierra
My friend owns a Performance shop and actually gave me one of them for the F150. It was installed and removed with a month.
Unless your friend gave it to you as a joke, remind me to never go to your friend's performance shop. |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
And it will work just as well (not at all):rolleyes:
Since this is coming from N_Jay, I'm guessing that this is not mere speculation but that it has been proven that a CAI Kit would not provide any performance benefits?
When I say CAI Kit. I'm thinking of the whole system that usually includes, true CAI, filter and a free flowing intake tube.
This would explain why K&N doesn't have a kit for the Pilot. But I haven't read anything yet that points to it. If there's some proof, can someone post a link to it? This Pilot Newbie would like to know the truth.
Thanks, |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
Since this is coming from N_Jay, I'm guessing that this is not mere speculation but that it has been proven that a CAI Kit would not provide any performance benefits?
When I say CAI Kit. I'm thinking of the whole system that usually includes, true CAI, filter and a free flowing intake tube.
This would explain why K&N doesn't have a kit for the Pilot. But I haven't read anything yet that points to it. If there's some proof, can someone post a link to it? This Pilot Newbie would like to know the truth.
Thanks,
Unless you are running your pilot wide open at high RPM, there is little an intake will do for power. |
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| DonP |
Well yeah, If I need more power at part throttle, I just give it more throttle. Aren't most (if not all) performance comparisons done at WOT?
So a CAI kit may be benificial? Especially when going up those long windy mountain roads, you're two cars back from that slow ass RV and you finally come to that short passing lane. |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
Well yeah, If I need more power at part throttle, I just give it more throttle. Aren't most (if not all) performance comparisons done at WOT?
So a CAI kit may be benificial? Especially when going up those long windy mountain roads, you're two cars back from that slow ass RV and you finally come to that short passing lane.
Well said. I guess when you need it, every last hp makes a difference. The stock setup doesn't look all that restrictive to me, but I can't remember anyone, anywhere, doing any kind of flow measurements or comparisons.
For those short bursts, just install a 50 wet kit and call it good
;) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
Well yeah, If I need more power at part throttle, I just give it more throttle. Aren't most (if not all) performance comparisons done at WOT?
So a CAI kit may be benificial? Especially when going up those long windy mountain roads, you're two cars back from that slow ass RV and you finally come to that short passing lane.
Except that at less than full or near full throttle AND high RPM, you can actually loose power.
Most cars today (well designed ones, like Honda)have intakes that are carefully tuned to flatten out the torque curve and product the most power over the widest range of RPM. Most CIA are designed without any study of the air flow and the needs of the engine.
In most cases average HP goes down more than peak HP goes up. |
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| slugmike |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
Well yeah, If I need more power at part throttle, I just give it more throttle. Aren't most (if not all) performance comparisons done at WOT?
So a CAI kit may be benificial? Especially when going up those long windy mountain roads, you're two cars back from that slow ass RV and you finally come to that short passing lane.
If you want it, get it. 99% of the people on this site don't like intakes. |
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| samster |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Except that at less than full or near full throttle AND high RPM, you can actually loose power.
Most cars today (well designed ones, like Honda)have intakes that are carefully tuned to flatten out the torque curve and product the most power over the widest range of RPM. Most CIA are designed without any study of the air flow and the needs of the engine.
In most cases average HP goes down more than peak HP goes up.
So does that reasoning also apply to replacing the factory air filter with a K&N filter, or only to changing intakes? I've considered the former, but not the latter. |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Except that at less than full or near full throttle AND high RPM, you can actually loose power.
Most cars today (well designed ones, like Honda)have intakes that are carefully tuned to flatten out the torque curve and product the most power over the widest range of RPM. Most CIA are designed without any study of the air flow and the needs of the engine.
In most cases average HP goes down more than peak HP goes up.
I doubt that a CAI would hurt performance at any RPM. Seems it would just allow more flow IF the OE pieces were a restriction. The throttle body and everything behind it are still the same. I think the shape of the power curve might be hurt if we were talking about changing out the intake manifold where the plenum volume and size and length of the runners were changed. That's merely speculation on my part. Saying that a CAI won't help, seems to be merely speculation by others. |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by slugmike
If you want it, get it. 99% of the people on this site don't like intakes.
We don't need it on our mommy mobile.
The people who don't like intakes should make that decision with some reasoning behind it. Not just because somehow, without any evidence, there is consensus here that they just don't work. But that's just me.
I got my answer. No one knows. To date, it's all just speculation. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by samster
So does that reasoning also apply to replacing the factory air filter with a K&N filter, or only to changing intakes? I've considered the former, but not the latter.
YES!!!
Both are a waste of money on a street car. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
We don't need it on our mommy mobile.
The people who don't like intakes should make that decision with some reasoning behind it. Not just because somehow, without any evidence, there is consensus here that they just don't work. But that's just me.
I got my answer. No one knows. To date, it's all just speculation.
No one knows because no one is going to do teh 100's of dyno runs under different conditions that it would take to come close to knowing.
But it is more then speculation that the intake DESIGNED and ENGINEERED for the engine does a better overall job than one randomly slapped on.
As for doubting the random part, fine ONE that looks like it has a lick of engineering beyond basic fitment? |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
No one knows because no one is going to do teh 100's of dyno runs under different conditions that it would take to come close to knowing.
I agree. K&N probably has the resources but I doubt the market is there for a Pilot CAI for any company to pursue it.
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
But it is more then speculation that the intake DESIGNED and ENGINEERED for the engine does a better overall job than one randomly slapped on.
As for doubting the random part, fine ONE that looks like it has a lick of engineering beyond basic fitment?
I agree on that too. But I wasn't thinking of a randomly slapped on piece.
A well designed CAI may increase overall performance. Auto manufacturers also take into consideration comfort and noise when they design these things. In the Pilots case, they likely leaned towards quiet comfortable rather than performance. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
I agree on that too. But I wasn't thinking of a randomly slapped on piece.
A well designed CAI may increase overall performance. Auto manufacturers also take into consideration comfort and noise when they design these things. In the Pilots case, they likely leaned towards quiet comfortable rather than performance.
Find ONE that looks like it has a lick of engineering beyond basic fitment? |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Find ONE that looks like it has a lick of engineering beyond basic fitment?
That's what we're looking for. And what the original post was about. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
That's what we're looking for. And what the original post was about.
But my comment was that they are NOT engineered for flow, and therefor I assume (and no one has shown me otherwise) that they are not likely to be better flowing then the original ENGINEERED intake system. |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
But my comment was that they are NOT engineered for flow, and therefor I assume (and no one has shown me otherwise) that they are not likely to be better flowing then the original ENGINEERED intake system.
Flow! Flow? That's why you put a big Coffee Can exhaust on your Civic! Now that's some Good Flow there!:D |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
Flow! Flow? That's why you put a big Coffee Can exhaust on your Civic! Now that's some Good Flow there!:D
Is that why my 914 LOOSES power with the muffler off? |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Is that why my 914 LOOSES power with the muffler off?
Well, now you're talking about back pressure and scavenging of exhaust gases from the combustion chamber...but I think it still helps prove your point. Flow is not the only aspect of intake and exhaust design, but it's the easiest for a layman to understand and for aftermarket companies to improve on. What gets lost are details like direction, turbulence, density, etc. All of which take extensive testing and engineering to be optimized. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
Well, now you're talking about back pressure and scavenging of exhaust gases from the combustion chamber...but I think it still helps prove your point. Flow is not the only aspect of intake and exhaust design, but it's the easiest for a layman to understand and for aftermarket companies to improve on. What gets lost are details like direction, turbulence, density, etc. All of which take extensive testing and engineering to be optimized.
AND, as I have said, show me ONE aftermarket intake system that looks like it has taken any of this into account.
Nope, just make it big and make it shiny. |
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| xGS |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
No one knows because no one is going to do teh 100's of dyno runs under different conditions that it would take to come close to knowing.
But it is more then speculation that the intake DESIGNED and ENGINEERED for the engine does a better overall job than one randomly slapped on.
As for doubting the random part, fine ONE that looks like it has a lick of engineering beyond basic fitment?
Attached is dyno data for the Fram Boost intake unit that fits the Ridgeline: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by xGS
Attached is dyno data for the Fram Boost intake unit that fits the Ridgeline:
I'm a little curios that it says "corrected".
I wonder what corrections in the data were made.
I want to see the Part Throttle data.
How many minutes a day do you drive full throttle? |
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| DonP |
I think the "corrections" are standard practice. They're usually for altitude, climate etc. It's an attempt to make the numbers more comparable across diferent dynos in diferent conditions. But we all know any comparisons should be done on the same dyno. The corrections on that dyno should be the same for both runs.
I don't think I've ever seen a part throttle dyno. And it doesn't make much sense to me. In that case the throttlebody would be the main restriction, and at that point it's as restrictive as the driver wants it to be. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
I think the "corrections" are standard practice. They're usually for altitude, climate etc. It's an attempt to make the numbers more comparable across diferent dynos in diferent conditions. But we all know any comparisons should be done on the same dyno. The corrections on that dyno should be the same for both runs.
I don't think I've ever seen a part throttle dyno. And it doesn't make much sense to me. In that case the throttlebody would be the main restriction, and at that point it's as restrictive as the driver wants it to be.
Yes, but at part throttle you could have dips in the power curve that the intake is ENGINEERED to smooth out.:rolleyes: |
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| DonP |
| Possibly, but I doubt anything before he TB would have such an effect. |
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| xGS |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I'm a little curios that it says "corrected".
I wonder what corrections in the data were made.
I want to see the Part Throttle data.
How many minutes a day do you drive full throttle?
Back to the original challenge:
Based on the dyno data, does it seem to you that the Fram Boost product has at least "a lick of engineering beyond basic fitment" behind it? |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by xGS
Back to the original challenge:
Based on the dyno data, does it seem to you that the Fram Boost product has at least "a lick of engineering beyond basic fitment" behind it?
I will give it that. |
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| slugmike |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
Well yeah, If I need more power at part throttle, I just give it more throttle.
Ditto. I'm guessing that ppl interested in intakes & other power adders push their cars harder than others - they're most likely not looking for 'improved part-throttle performance' |
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| Guiltyr1 |
| somebody stated they built one. How about the details and pic's??? |
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| Layspeed |
Go back up to page 2, you'll find a pic of my setup.
Beware of the haters in the "performance" section! :4: :8: :roadtrip: |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by Layspeed
Go back up to page 2, you'll find a pic of my setup.
Beware of the haters in the "performance" section! :4: :8: :roadtrip:
Not everyone has the same "page" setup as you do...and your picture was actually in the "Muffler" thread...so it might be tough to find. Anyway, here it is for those that are interested.
 |
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| DonP |
The pic above is not CAI (COLD Air Induction). At least not as it is pictured. A CAI would be closed off from the engine compartment so that it does not suck in warm air from that area. That's what the COLD in CAI means, it pulls relatively cold air from outside. Cold air is more dense. Which means it has more O2, so the ECU can add more fuel, which means more power.
Maybe there is a cover to that mod and it's just off for the picture. But no one responded to my inquirey in the other thread with a confirmation. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
The pic above is not CAI (COLD Air Induction). At least not as it is pictured. A CAI would be closed off from the engine compartment so that it does not suck in warm air from that area. That's what the COLD in CAI means, it pulls relatively cold air from outside. Cold air is more dense. Which means it has more O2, so the ECU can add more fuel, which means more power.
Maybe there is a cover to that mod and it's just off for the picture. But no one responded to my inquirey in the other thread with a confirmation.
Don't worry, CIA's are mostly for looks and (sound). The temperature difference is immaterial for all but real racers (as opposed to ricers). |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Don't worry, CIA's are mostly for looks and (sound). The temperature difference is immaterial for all but real racers (as opposed to ricers).
I don't buy that, underhood temps can get pretty high. The stock system in the Pilot is CAI. Maybe the Honda engineers have a future race program in mind. :rolleyes: I think all modern cars pull air in from outside the engine compartment to avoid the hotter air.
I'd understand if you said Aftermarket CAI are more for looks and sound. But I think you're bit off to say that the diference in air temps doesn't matter. |
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| Poki |
Attached is dyno data for the Fram Boost intake unit that fits the Ridgeline:
Attachment: framboost_dyno_ridgeline.pdf
Rats, the Fram Boost intake is not approved for use in California. |
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| Layspeed |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Don't worry, CIA's are mostly for looks and (sound). The temperature difference is immaterial for all but real racers (as opposed to ricers).
To clarify, I never stated I had a "CAI". Also, I posted the picture in the "muffler" thread because slugmike asked for it.
Also, to N_Jay I installed this intake for BOTH looks and sound, does that make me ricer? I guess you can suggest that if it makes you feel superior. :rolleyes: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Layspeed
. . . .Also, to N_Jay I installed this intake for BOTH looks and sound, does that make me ricer? I guess you can suggest that if it makes you feel superior. :rolleyes:
Yep, makes you a ricer.
Nah, does not make me feel superior, just makes me wonder.:rolleyes:
Hey, I got some cool Bilstein, Brembo, and PIAA stickers for ya.
The parts are on the car, but I never use the silly stickers.
:2: :2: :2: |
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| Poki |
| I see we got some haters on this board |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by Layspeed
To clarify, I never stated I had a "CAI". Also, I posted the picture in the "muffler" thread because slugmike asked for it.
Also, to N_Jay I installed this intake for BOTH looks and sound, does that make me ricer? I guess you can suggest that if it makes you feel superior. :rolleyes:
I didn't say it was a bad thing that you posted them in the muffler thread. I simply stated the exact location for reference. You told Guilty to go back to "page two" to see pics. That doesn't really say where the pics are...I had to do a search to find them, so I figured I would help other users by posting the pic here.
IIRC, RICE was originally a term used to describe "Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements" that seemed to gain popularity in the late 80s. Since you say that you put the intake on for looks and sound, then yes...that makes you a ricer. So what? If that's your style, then go for it. You don't need other people's approval to change your vehicle to fit your style. Slam it, raise it, put lambo doors on it, whatever...just don't say you're doing it for performance if you're not. I don't recall anyone calling the blown Pilot, the nitrous Pilot, or the lambo doors Pilot RICE.
Haters, eh? Welcome to the net...ridicule and flaming are part of the package.
:rolleyes: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
. . . RICE was originally a term used to describe "Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements" . . . . .:rolleyes:
The term "Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements" was made up after the fact.
Ricers were a term for "Boy Racers" using mostly Asian cars, |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
The term "Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements" was made up after the fact.
Ricers were a term for "Boy Racers" using mostly Asian cars,
Wiki agrees with you.:8: |
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| Layspeed |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Yep, makes you a ricer.
Nah, does not make me feel superior, just makes me wonder.:rolleyes:
Hey, I got some cool Bilstein, Brembo, and PIAA stickers for ya.
The parts are on the car, but I never use the silly stickers.
:2: :2: :2:
:6: Y'know what? You are so right about EVERYTHING! Go ahead and send me those stickers I'll put them on my toolbox so it will help me work faster. :30:
quote:
Haters, eh? Welcome to the net...ridicule and flaming are part of the package.
This should go without saying on the internet...but I still believe that "if you don't have anything nice to say...then say nothing at all." I guess that's too difficult of a concept for most on the net though. :4: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Layspeed
:6: Y'know what? You are so right about EVERYTHING!
Yea, it's a burden.:D
quote:
Originally posted by Layspeed
This should go without saying on the Internet...but I still believe that "if you don't have anything nice to say...then say nothing at all." I guess that's too difficult of a concept for most on the net though. :4:
Well, Normally I agree with you in social interactions,
But on the Net we are exchanging information so I go by my other rule:
""if you don't have anything accurate to say...then say nothing at all!" :4: :4: |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
""if you don't have anything accurate to say...then say nothing at all!" :4: :4:
Seems you've made quite a few posts in this thread based soley on speculation. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
Seems you've made quite a few posts in this thread based soley on speculation.
You sure? |
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| DonP |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
You sure?
yes |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by DonP
yes
Good to hear it. :) |
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| slugmike |
quote:
Originally posted by Layspeed
Beware of the haters in the "performance" section! :4: :8: :roadtrip:
This quote pretty much sums up this entire thread. |
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| Layspeed |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Yea, it's a burden.:D
Well, Normally I agree with you in social interactions,
But on the Net we are exchanging information so I go by my other rule:
""if you don't have anything accurate to say...then say nothing at all!" :4: :4:
Must be nice to have a different set of rules for your real life and your virtual life. Shows how two-faced some people can be. I could be wrong; maybe you're just one of those bored people who like to stir up ****.
Not interested in "performance"? Don't comment and let us exchange our information ;)
I'm done, I'm sure you're the type to always have the last word...so the floor in yours. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Layspeed
Must be nice to have a different set of rules for your real life and your virtual life. Shows how two-faced some people can be. I could be wrong; maybe you're just one of those bored people who like to stir up ****.
Not interested in "performance"? Don't comment and let us exchange our information ;)
I'm done, I'm sure you're the type to always have the last word...so the floor in yours.
I guess you don't always catch the sarcasm. Sorry.
Hmm, nah, not two faced, just don't see much reason to let you get bad information so you can save face on-line.
No one here is going to see you blush, so what is the advantage to letting bad information continue to be spread.
We also also have passive readers that take what they read as factual if no one provides the other side of the story.
I have always enjoyed the "Last Word" line used that way. Its kind of like the kid who gets upset and "takes his ball and goes home".
It' an artificial end to any discussion.
(And yep, I like stirring up sh!t, :) )
P.S. You want performance, then lets have a conversation about it.
But don't start with the 1% to 5% gains that you will never use and never notice on a street car. They are a waste of time and money. |
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| slugmike |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
P.S. You want performance, then lets have a conversation about it.
But don't start with the 1% to 5% gains that you will never use and never notice on a street car. They are a waste of time and money.
If you're really interesting in discussing the pilot's performance, why don't I see you posting in the thread about the guy with the 80 shot of nitrous?
You seem more interesting in playing devil's advocate than anything else.. but at least you admit to it so that's cool I guess.
Also I think a 5% gain on a 245hp car is nothing to sneeze at!! Although I doubt you'd ever be able to get that on the pilot with just an intake.
Anyways, wasn't this thread about parts availability, not parts effectiveness?
(Awaits obligatory witty retort) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by slugmike
If you're really interesting in discussing the pilot's performance, why don't I see you posting in the thread about the guy with the 80 shot of nitrous?
Why? Nitrous WILL give you a good boost, and most people who put nitrous systems on their cars know what to expect.
quote:
Originally posted by slugmike
You seem more interesting in playing devil's advocate than anything else.. but at least you admit to it so that's cool I guess.
Devils advocate? Why?
If anything, I think those who continue to tout CAIs and other intake mods for street cars are the ones on teh devils side.
quote:
Originally posted by slugmike
Also I think a 5% gain on a 245hp car is nothing to sneeze at!! Although I doubt you'd ever be able to get that on the pilot with just an intake.
Really? You think you could feel a 5% difference between two cars?
You get bigger changes between fuel blends and different weather conditions.
But I do agree that 5% is WAY high for what those systems can provide.
Geeze, $200 for way less than 12 HP?
Yep, selling the devils work.
You are better putting that $200 towards driving lessons.
quote:
Originally posted by slugmike
Anyways, wasn't this thread about parts availability, not parts effectiveness?
(Awaits obligatory witty retort)
LOL, since they are not worth the $$, who cares about availability?
(Just spreading some truth and love) :) |
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| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
LOL, since they are not worth the $$, who cares about availability?
(Just spreading some truth and love) :)
obviously some people have the money to spend on something they want, so they care about availability. besides, it may not be worth the money to you, but it could be to them. the world doesn't revolve around you, you know? ;) :p |
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| FastWRX |
| i guess ill chime in here, im the nitrous guy. id have to say that the CAI i made for the Pilot is a big mod with great gains, the pilot feels soo slugish without it, especially in the mid range. i would not call it a 5% gain mod. |
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| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by FastWRX
i guess ill chime in here, im the nitrous guy. id have to say that the CAI i made for the Pilot is a big mod with great gains, the pilot feels soo slugish without it, especially in the mid range. i would not call it a 5% gain mod.
just wondering if you put it on a dyno? or was that the butt dyno? it sounds like you've spent great effort in putting power in. :29: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
obviously some people have the money to spend on something they want, so they care about availability. besides, it may not be worth the money to you, but it could be to them. the world doesn't revolve around you, you know? ;) :p
Worth it from an OBJECTIVE standpoint.
Yes, I want it and looks cool and makes my car sound cool, and I'll blow $200 on it for those reasons is one thing.
But, "WOW what a difference it makes to the way my car runs", I just don't go for.
By the way, I am no stranger to engine building and tuning. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by FastWRX
i guess ill chime in here, im the nitrous guy. id have to say that the CAI i made for the Pilot is a big mod with great gains, the pilot feels soo slugish without it, especially in the mid range. i would not call it a 5% gain mod.
If you say so!:rolleyes:
Any dyno tests? |
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| FastWRX |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Worth it from an OBJECTIVE standpoint.
Yes, I want it and looks cool and makes my car sound cool, and I'll blow $200 on it for those reasons is one thing.
But, "WOW what a difference it makes to the way my car runs", I just don't go for.
By the way, I am no stranger to engine building and tuning.
not all cars are the same, put a intake on a S2000 and you will see little to no gain, i don't have dyno sheets but my butt dyno tells me made a big difference, and the cost was about 80 bucks... 55 for the 4 inch K&N fiter and 20 for the plastic sewer pipes from home depot. |
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| ctobio |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
You are better putting that $200 towards driving lessons.
Wow. Absolutely true, too. I'd rather put my money in things that will make my car stop or turn better. All my cars go plenty fast. Even my 73 VW. I don't need to dump more money into it so I can shave .05 seconds off my 0-60 speed. I drive my car, not race it. |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by FastWRX
not all cars are the same, put a intake on a S2000 and you will see little to no gain, i don't have dyno sheets but my butt dyno tells me made a big difference, and the cost was about 80 bucks... 55 for the 4 inch K&N fiter and 20 for the plastic sewer pipes from home depot.
Pics? I'd love to see this setup...not to imitate it, but it's just cool to see complete custom fabrication.:cool: |
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| rocky |
quote:
Originally posted by FastWRX
not all cars are the same, put a intake on a S2000 and you will see little to no gain, i don't have dyno sheets but my butt dyno tells me made a big difference, and the cost was about 80 bucks... 55 for the 4 inch K&N fiter and 20 for the plastic sewer pipes from home depot.
Of course your butt dyno could feel the difference.
Your wallet is thinner now |
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| Guiltyr1 |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
Pics? I'd love to see this setup...not to imitate it, but it's just cool to see complete custom fabrication.:cool:
I too would like to see some pic's and measurments of what you got... |
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| Guiltyr1 |
quote:
Originally posted by rocky
Of course your butt dyno could feel the difference.
Your wallet is thinner now
And this made me laugh out loud.. HA:o |
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| Guiltyr1 |
| Still waiting on details on the set-up... |
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| Cas002 |
| I don't think there is much of a difference between a CAI and a short ram unless you are driving in extreme conditions like racing or a hot stop 'n go environment. However, I do believe there would be a small gain in power going from the stock intake to a short ram with a free-breathing quality K&N filter and a 3-4" intake pipe. I agree Honda has the current system optimized for the average driver's needs but I suspect some of the power is compromised in order to suppress sound and vibration. What the hell, I like tinkering so maybe I'll make a trip to Home Depot and Advance Auto Parts and then check the butt dyno myself :) |
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| ctobio |
quote:
[i]maybe I'll make a trip to Home Depot and Advance Auto Parts and then check the butt dyno myself :) [/B]
I wonder how much of this performance gain will be as a result of just having a clean air filter. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Cas002
. . I like tinkering so maybe I'll make a trip to Home Depot and Advance Auto Parts and then check the butt dyno myself :)
The big problem, is the "butt Dyno" is not only inaccurate, it is also deceiving. |
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| Cas002 |
| Yes, some of the gains will be from a cleaner filter but some from higher quality filtration. I also agree that a butt dyno is not very reliable but it is convenient - no one has a dynamometer in their garage and who wants to pay $150/hour to find out they gained 2HP with a $50 home made short ram :rolleyes: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Cas002
Yes, some of the gains will be from a cleaner filter but some from higher quality filtration. I also agree that a butt dyno is not very reliable but it is convenient - no one has a dynamometer in their garage and who wants to pay $150/hour to find out they gained 2HP with a $50 home made short ram :rolleyes:
What is the use of the Butt Dyno, when it often tells you there is more power when in fact there is less power and more noise! |
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| ctobio |
quote:
Originally posted by Cas002
Yes, some of the gains will be from a cleaner filter but some from higher quality filtration. I also agree that a butt dyno is not very reliable but it is convenient - no one has a dynamometer in their garage and who wants to pay $150/hour to find out they gained 2HP with a $50 home made short ram :rolleyes:
So, what's 2HP (if you even get that) going to do for you?
At any rate, I've been seeing a lot of talk that the K & N filter isn't all they're cracked up to be. The general idea is that they let "too much" small particles through versus a simply good quality aftermarket filter.
This was pretty interesting- one of the several tests I've seen on the K & N versus paper battle.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
I'd look at K & N filters with a certain degree of skepticism. |
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| Cas002 |
The Butt Dyno is just a fun unscientific way of guessing about the changes you just made...not much more.
2HP alone won't do much but some of us seek to squeeze as much performance as possible from their machines for each dollar spent. For some "performance" starts with improving the vehicle dynamics while for others it's power. I like both but the Pilot handles very well with very predictable understeer so I'll take the 2HP if I can find it for cheap. Using my other car as a best-case example, K&N managed to squeeze 3.5% more power from it (according to their dyno...http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=57-3509) which translates to 8HP+ for the Pilot. I don't expect that result from a homemade short ram but I do expect some gains.
Very interesting filter test and enjoyed the read. I was surprised by the small difference in pressure drop across different filter brands and types. I'm not too surprised by how K&N performed. More flow should come at the cost of reduced filtration capability. I guess the question is what particle size and how many of them per mile driven can deteriorate long term performance and reliability of your engine and does the K&N let enough particles through to put your engine at risk long term? I have no clue, but I'll use the filter with the smallest pressure drop (K&N) and take my chances :) |
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| ctobio |
Heh. "their" dyno... :)
How about some independent testing?
For me, I'm not willing so sacrifice engine longevity for 2 hp. |
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| charliekhonda |
| Another advantage of leasing-to hell with longevity!!! |
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| Mr-72 |
| I have fabricated open-element air filter rigs for a couple of cars I have owned, with the main improvements being in off-idle throttle response and of course, mostly, sound. Most of the "performance" mods people do on street cars are for bragging rights and making them feel more powerful, not real or useful performance upgrades. A stock Pilot is way faster than it needs to be to get its job done. |
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| bluesdog64 |
| Question: Would adding a CAI system to my 2006 void my warranty? |
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| ctobio |
quote:
Originally posted by bluesdog64
Question: Would adding a CAI system to my 2006 void my warranty?
Possibly, yes. The onus is on the manufacturer to prove that the modification caused the fault and not a manufacturer's defect. For example, if the radio dies, then they can't deny the claim, but if your MAF sensor craps out, you'd have a harder case proving that the modification didn't damage the component. |
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| charliekhonda |
| If you do it, keep you factory airbox etc. If you have a MAF sensor issue, swap in the factory stuff. |
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| bluesdog64 |
HA! Sneaky!
I like it!!! :12: |
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| Cas002 |
Gotta love their optimism and marketing prowess....
"Get your Weapon R air intake system and add extra power to your Honda Pilot now!
Key features:
-Gains of up to 16hp/13ft.lbs of torque (on some models)"
Definitely pricey but it is a viable option and a good find. I would like to hear someone's experience with the install to see if it actually fits/mounts properly. |
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