| CMasten |
Didnt see any threads about Vista so thought I would strike one up.
I have been running this OS on several machines now for about a month. I have access to the release on my MSDN subscription, so I have the Business release.
There is one install, that I got, and it does a very good job of reporting on your user experience to install or upgrade (Before) you start. Nice
I have one workstation that is dual core and it installed Ultimate on that one, Both of my laptops are similar in configuration so they both got Business edition. I have several other machines running XP Pro.
Over all its been a very pleasant ride, in my experience more compatable than even XP was. it even told me there was not a Vista driver for my HP all in one printer/scanner unit and after install it actually created a twain driver based on what it found and it works better than the stock HP drivers did!
There is no doubt it is a resource hog, but very nice interface. The only issue I have with it to this point (and in all fairness I have not played in that area enough to know the limitations) is in networking resources and file shareing.
It seems to be a pain in the butt going from XP to Vista workstations, but not the reverse, Im sure its something I just need to know, but its no super intuitive.
For anti virus and spy-ware et all, I am running Microsoft's One Care, nice package, they have a 60 day eval for release versions and it covers up to 3 PCs and has all kinds of features that seem useful. CostCo has the release of One Cares subscription available for just 32.00 that covers your 3 pc's for a whole year. Doesn't seem too bad and most of the features can be turned off as you deem them not necessary.
I am planning on getting a new rocking Dell 17" laptop after the holidays when the prices become more reasonable and Dell usually blows out its Xmas inventory, Should be interesting to see how it performs on a new Core 2 Duo with a couple of gigs of Ram.
Over all I really like it, in fact i like it better than XP, but then I started off as a Mac guy.. so maybe its the pretty interface :)
Happy Holiday all you Piloteers! |
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| jrinjax |
We are planning a migration of our server and work stations to Vista by the end of next year. Hopefully that will be enough time for them to work the bugs out and get the file sharing features finished.
We get very good service from our XPP workstations and 2000 server. There seem to be occasionally a few more glitches popping up that we attribute to all the "patches".
We are already using Windows Livecare and have been satisfied with every thing but the original beta that screwed the registries trying to clean them up.
Until we reloaded, the only way to run Microsoft Update was to blow away the softwaredistribution folder and then install the updates.
JR |
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| N_Jay |
Not to drift too much, but my Mcafee is coming up for renewal.
I have been using MS Definer beta for spy-ware protection.
Should I dump them and go for "one care"? Thoughts?? |
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| CMasten |
I think LavaSoft makes good products, I have been using their AdAware now for a few years, its updated often and works well.
What i like about One Care is that its Anti Virus, Anti Spyware and it has a very intelligent internal firewall that keeps track of what applications are allowed through and what are not. This is helpful in the event that "extra' stuff gets installed with applications that you put on your machines, I have already caught a few on some games my boys installed. I know that standard anti spy ware and AdAware would not have caught it, as it was also installed on the XP workstation that has it running.
I also like the fact that if something is installed internally One Care should catch it when my Hardware external firewall would not. Its easy enough to use and its integration to Vista specifically is pretty seemless. I was going to spend a lot more than 32.00 for just anti virus on 3 machines so I think its a good deal. Its also completely automated as part of the MS daily updates so just set it and forget it. |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Should I dump them and go for "one care"? Thoughts??
I've been using One Care for several months now with no problems, runs much smoother than Norton. |
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| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by CMasten
Over all I really like it, in fact i like it better than XP, but then I started off as a Mac guy.. so maybe its the pretty interface :)
that was my first impression, that it seemed very similar to a mac. :D
I wonder how many people will actually upgrade to vista, considering the potentially huge cost in hardware upgrades? vista won't be able to run on most current systems due to its high hardware requirements. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
that was my first impression, that it seemed very similar to a mac. :D
I wonder how many people will actually upgrade to vista, considering the potentially huge cost in hardware upgrades? vista won't be able to run on most current systems due to its high hardware requirements.
It should run on anything more than a real cheapie built in the last 2 years.
I just built two real cheapies, and both are Vista ready. |
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| CMasten |
On the desktop when you select properties on "computer" - they took the My Computer naming off.. you will get a nice interface that shows you the Windows Experience Index. It breaks down how your Vista experience will be based on an index that they measure and monitor and where your system might be weak, i.e memory, CPU, Disk IO etc. You will also find Device Manager, Remote Settings, System Settings and Advanced options here. It nice they included your workgroup or domain and computer name options here also, in addition to the network that were all used to.
Also for measuring the bottlnecks, Performance Monitor got some major upgrades. You can select RUN and type perfmon /res to get the new resource monitor that is much easier to read than the old version. There are many more layers to Vista, but they have tried to put the functions you want most within easy reach.
I am also running Office 2007 that has the Ribbon interface and that is really cool! hard to get excited about Office, but its the first program that will actually dynamically build your menus based upon the way you use them most. Its the first Office upgrade that I am excited about, 2003 was ok, but not much different than the XP version.
Yea, this is all getting pretty expensive , thank goodness for MSDN subscriptions!! If I was building out a new machine (and I will be in Jan) I would set it up with Vista Ultimate, Office 2007 Pro Plus, One Care and all on a nice new Core 2 Duo with a min of 2 gigs of ram, a fast current video card with 256 megs of vram and a fast IO Sata Drive. WOW has this all shifted up in the hardware dept fast! |
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| jrinjax |
I did the Pre-Vista checkout on my Office desktop workstation, my Home desktop workstation, and both of my Dell notebooks and I only had 1 HP scanner that was going to be a problem with getting the Vista drivers.
All four are 2 years old or less but still seem to be less problems than what I was expecting.
JR |
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| CMasten |
quote:
Originally posted by jrinjax
I did the Pre-Vista checkout on my Office desktop workstation, my Home desktop workstation, and both of my Dell notebooks and I only had 1 HP scanner that was going to be a problem with getting the Vista drivers.
All four are 2 years old or less but still seem to be less problems than what I was expecting.
JR
For the HP scanners you will find that Vista will create a Twain driver that will work inside of their interface or inside of any 3rd party scanning software. The issue at the moment is that HP is still getting caught up so their software isnt compatable, but chances are good that the hardware will talk to Vista just fine using the Twain driver. |
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| jrinjax |
Thanks for the advice on the TWAIN driver.
We are going to wait a while on "adopting" while we check on how some of the possible "show stopper" issues like the "Authentication Layer" play out.
I have run afoul of the Genuine Windows advantage and had to call Mother Microsoft after just making some configuration changes on XP.
The "thought" of an onboard program malfunctioning/being hacked and shutting down my workstations or server OS is "unthinkable".
We are going to give the Hackers at least 6-8 months to do their worst against the new Authentication Layer and then decide if it is time to make the move.
I used to be an early adopter with 95,98,2000/2000 server, [skipped NT] but was smarter/slower with XP since IS failures have become more critical for us and I have less time to devote to IS issues.
Merry Christmas,
JR |
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| CMasten |
One other item that is good to know about Vista, is that it protects everything... so you will run into applications that need to run under administrative rights. Its easy enough to do, just right-click your application EXE and select properties, under the compatibility tab you will see a box at the bottom "run this program as an administrator" , just select this box and hit Apply. Your good to go.
This can act in strange scenarios, i.e Itunes runs just fine, but will give you a meaningless xxxxx error when you try and make a CD. but applying admin rights to the exe it now runs just fine. It has not been a big issue, but it is annoying over XP. ALL of the issues that I have had to this point with Vista and incompatable applications have been resolved by this method. |
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| jrinjax |
When I read all the reviews, I have seen alerts that say the mal-ware protections are ineffective when using my webmail or Lotus notes. They have several 2 year old trojans that have the double extensions that will run on Vista. These ARE detected/disabled by using it's internal mail system but not on the webmail I use when traveling.
Merry Christmas,
JR |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
...
I wonder how many people will actually upgrade to vista, considering the potentially huge cost in hardware upgrades?
...
Only the PDBs you see standing on line outside CompUSA during Midnight Madness. :19: :21: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
Only the PDBs you see standing on line outside CompUSA during Midnight Madness. :19: :21:
And those with a software subscription. |
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| Sportymonk |
I can tell them apart, OS X doesn't crash!! :p Seriously, I left Windows when my Dude Its a Dud broke the lid for the 4th time in the same place and Windows Me kept crashing and giving kernel32.dll errors that inevitabley required a reinstallation. Tried to get XP to work on the Dell but since it was a 2001 model, Dell said it wasn't certified for XP. Sort of worked but couldn't adjust mouse or sound, etc. Got a Powerbook and never have had a problem since.
BTW, my wife bought a Dell laptop at the same time I got my Powerbook. Has been nothing but trouble. And although it listed cheaper, by the time we bought everything software and hardware that mine had, it cost about $300 more. Have had two major repairs in the last four months. Found out at a Duke meeting of PhD folks that a significant number there that night use an apple. One is trying to finish writing a project before he changes.
Windows Vista should actually be more like Apple OS X than it is but they couldnt' get certain features in Longhorn (Vista's development name) to work and they were falling seriously behind schedule (years) so they left them out.
If I had it to do all over again, I would definitely buy a Mac and just run OS X, no need for Windows that I know of.
quote:
Originally posted by CMasten
LOL... yea no doubt he is spot on, its not the OS you would want on a dual boot Mac PowerBook Pro.. you would never tell them apart :) so there is still plenty of value in good ol XP
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| rocky |
Sporty, Ditch the dell. If you want a bullet proof windows laptop get a Thinkpad. Mine travels throughout US and Europe, and been savaged by off road adventures.
Only time it can gets flaky is when I miss the low battery sign and don't charge it up. |
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| Sportymonk |
I did ditch my Dell, heard it died not long after. My wife wants a Mac but doens't want to change in the middle of her dissertation. The thinkpad is exactly what we are thinking of. She needs something reliable. Thanks for the recomendation. Is there a difference in the Levano computers and the IBM thinkpads (owned and made by Levano)?
quote:
Originally posted by rocky
Sporty, Ditch the dell. If you want a bullet proof windows laptop get a Thinkpad. Mine travels throughout US and Europe, and been savaged by off road adventures.
Only time it can gets flaky is when I miss the low battery sign and don't charge it up.
Chris
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| 5Gs |
| with dells, we've had some issues with them other than the latitude series. |
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| rocky |
I'm so stuck on thinkpad, that its difficult to switch (honda owners have the same problem too)
Got mine through www.pcconnection.com www.lenovo.com is also interesting to say the least. |
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| jrinjax |
We've had problems with the electrolyic capacitors on the new Optiplex's Intel motherboards failing along with:
My old Lattitude cpt [that has Dos 6.22/2000] that I take into the field to program some of the older automation with has such a moisture sensitive keyboard that if you sneeze on it, it locks up and I have to remove/separate the membranes in the keyboard. If I am on top of a building and a cloud goes over, I run for cover. The serial port pins also pushed inside the machine. I had to remove the motherboard and epoxy it.
I also have two XPP inspirons [one is 98/xpp for Dos7 apps]. The 600m is my favorite even though it has a small screen since I can climb in my Laz-z-boy with it in my lap without getting roasted.
The other is an 1100 puts off more heat than a toaster and will toast important parts of my body after just a few minutes.
I agree the Dells are not as high quality as they should be but my old IBM and two Toshibas before them were not terrific either.
I also had a IBM pcxt which was "cutting edge" back in '87!
BTW, I have always built kit-desktops for home since they are fun to tweak the DRAM timing and CPU clock/core voltage for max performace.
I have a ASUS MB clocking 3.2 GHZ and have gone higher.
Merry Christmas,
JR |
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| Sportymonk |
Steve Jobs gets his Christmas gift. May be old news to some (but not unexpected) but this mornings news has this article in the Raleigh News & Observer
http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/525308.html
"Microsoft is facing an early crisis of confidence in the quality of its Windows Vista operating system as computer security researchers and hackers have begun to find potentially serious flaws in the system that was released to corporate customers late last month.
On Dec. 15, a Russian programmer posted a description of a flaw that makes it possible to increase a user's privileges on all of the company's recent operating systems, including Vista.
And over the weekend a Silicon Valley computer security firm said it had notified Microsoft that it had also found that flaw, as well as five other vulnerabilities, including one serious error in the software code underlying the company's new Internet Explorer 7 browser.
The browser flaw is troubling because it means that Web users could become infected with malicious software simply by visiting a booby-trapped site."
Oh well, happily mac-ing along. Merry Christmas |
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| rocky |
| Good reasons to stick with xp for a year or two until my current pcs are ready for the scrap pile |
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| 2muchfun |
| I just got a new laptop on sale and it comes with a free upgrade to Vista. Maybe I should just stay with the XP Media Center that it came with huh? |
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| CMasten |
Vista is much more stable and secure than XP will ever be, I would say for any of you looking to upgrade, DO and dont look back. I was playing with a new Macbook Pro yesterday... and my new HP with Vista and the Mac are so close in look and appearance its scary. The Vista machine with the Core 2 Duos did seem a bit snappier and was noticeably faster with 2 gigs of Ram, the MacBook Pro only had a gig.
The combination of Vista with Office 2007 is amazing and fast. I am quite pleased with this new HP 9030. As a Mac consultant for over 10 years and now just about as much time on PC's I can say both systems are very close in user experience. They used to be 2 different worlds, that is clearly not the case any more for most users. |
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| 2muchfun |
| My HP 6000 series has Duo core but only 1 gig of ram. Still do the upgrade? Or is it worth the $300 ish to get 2 gig? |
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| CMasten |
quote:
Originally posted by 2muchfun
My HP 6000 series has Duo core but only 1 gig of ram. Still do the upgrade? Or is it worth the $300 ish to get 2 gig?
a gig will run just fine, I have 2 machines with just a gig and they fly along without any issues, they are running Ultimate and I have Aero on etc.. so no worries. You can always add it later in the year if you feel the need.
also I just added a gig of 200 pin memory for my wifes, Dell Inspiron 6000 and only paid 85.00 shipped from www.newegg.com |
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| 2muchfun |
| ah yes, newegg. a buddy told me about that and I forgot. thanks :) |
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| dew2far |
| Vista looks like a crappy copy of an old Mac OS. A definite improvement for all PC users but a far cry from my Mac's OS 10.4 Tiger. |
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| CMasten |
quote:
Originally posted by dew2far
Vista looks like a crappy copy of an old Mac OS. A definite improvement for all PC users but a far cry from my Mac's OS 10.4 Tiger.
its actually the old NeXt system that sits on Unix that steve jobs sold to Apple... and they are actually very similar if your running Ultimate. I have pushed them both pretty hard. The big problem with the Macs still is that the software world of development (my world) is so small and limited compared to PC's. It really depends on what your going to use them for. Office on a mac is no where close to Office 2007 sitting on Vista. PhotoShop on NT has pretty much caught up to what Knoll wrote so many years ago for Apple...
Apple has always been a hardware company (one of the best to this day still) and MS has always been a software company. I still consult for both worlds, but my user experience with the release of Vista this past month has been pretty impressive and I am a Mac guy. |
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| dew2far |
| I'm sure they are similar (you clearly know more about it than I do). As an average user I'll withhold futher judgement until after all the security holes are patched and viruses are reduced. |
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| CMasten |
quote:
Originally posted by dew2far
I'm sure they are similar (you clearly know more about it than I do). As an average user I'll withhold futher judgement until after all the security holes are patched and viruses are reduced.
There is only one hole that I am aware of at the moment, but there will be more... like anything that is the majority, people are going to shoot at it. The Mac has security holes its just that there are so few people using the OS its not worth the time of hackers to spend exploiting them. Get enough people poking at an OS/software and you will find issues.
I run both and enjoy both, but for everyone here looking forward to Vista its going to be a good upgrade for those currently running XP. It does require some heftly hardware but that is not much different than the Mac going from OS 9 up to OS X. In both cases its a cool ride. |
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| 2005exlPilot |
quote:
Originally posted by CMasten
One other item that is good to know about Vista, is that it protects everything... so you will run into applications that need to run under administrative rights. Its easy enough to do, just right-click your application EXE and select properties, under the compatibility tab you will see a box at the bottom "run this program as an administrator" , just select this box and hit Apply. Your good to go.
This can act in strange scenarios, i.e Itunes runs just fine, but will give you a meaningless xxxxx error when you try and make a CD. but applying admin rights to the exe it now runs just fine. It has not been a big issue, but it is annoying over XP. ALL of the issues that I have had to this point with Vista and incompatable applications have been resolved by this method.
The reason for MS to lock down has been discussed by several experts. Instead, one should ask the software companies (whoever wrote the exe) to provide the patch so that the program can run without being an admin. As more users ask, the software companies will eventually listen. And the end users win.
Run the program as admin only until the patch is released. |
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| Sportymonk |
The Raleigh paper had an article last week stating that there are two major holes in vista so far. One allows people to act as administrators. The other involves Internet Explorer which allows people to get in at which point they can exploit the other hole and act as an administrator.
Edit: Found llink to New York Times author
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstr...DAB0994DE404482
DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - Microsoft is facing early crisis of confidence in quality of its Windows Vista operating system as computer security researchers and hackers have begun to find potentially serious flaws in system that was released to corporate customers in late November; browser flaw is particularly troubling because it potentially means that Web users could become infected with malicious software by visiting booby-trapped site; Determina, which sells software intended to protect against operating system and other vulnerabilities, says browser flaw would make it possible for attacker to inject rogue software into Vista-based computer; many in computer industry are taking wait-and-see approach to Microsoft's assertions about improved reliability of Vista |
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| 2005exlPilot |
Every operating system has vulnerabilities, those that claim otherwise just don't understand software. Vista is no exception. As CMasten said before, it's just that Windows is so widespread that most hackers focus their energies on it rather than some obscure OS (the other extreme for example) that just a few use.
BTW, calling Vista as unsecure because of IE7 isn't quite right. Sure IE7 ships with Vista, but it can also be installed on XP. True, there's one Vista vulnerability found. But I think it's a stretch to say the whole OS is unsecure because of one security flaw. Reporters/experts get paid for making headlines that sell their products today. Only time will tell the true story.
Mac OS's are very good. However, comparing Apple products to Microsoft products is like comparing apples to oranges. Heh, heh, I like the pun. Again, as CMasten said, one is a hardware/software company and the other is a software company - well at least in the operating system / pc domain. In the game console space, the comparisons are more appropriate because it's hardware/software combination. Here MS has shown adequate competence in entering the market last and capturing adequate market share against well established powerhouses.
The point that CMasten has made is that Vista is worth it for him and that he thinks it's a good option to consider. XP had their naysayers then, Vista has them too.
Anyway, here's a more detailed list of what's in Vista on Wikipedia. Warning: some of the descriptions are quite geeky. |
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| Finnius |
Just thought I'd second the Vista recommend. It's not as good as some hoped, but definate progress. OS X is also very good, and Bootcamp negates a lot of the old arguments against Apple. Try and forget the marketing if you're shopping, and look at them as tools. Both work, both have strengths and weaknesses. Choose based opon your needs, not on hype.
And remember that every machine is vulnerable, having an Apple does not automatically make you immune: http://projects.info-pull.com/moab/ |
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| ThePilotster |
| New Vista tech support:2: |
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| Sportymonk |
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007...?partner=alerts
In the span of five years, Microsoft Corp. promised its most advanced operating system ever and then yanked key features to meet deadlines that were missed anyway. Details of what would later be known as Windows Vista sounded suspiciously like Apple's Mac OS X. .....
That's not to suggest Vista's perfect or even as polished as Mac OS X. In more than a month of testing on multiple PCs, I've run into a number of rough patches. Then again, I was able to run my systems longer between restarts, experienced fewer crashes and generally found it more informative than its predecessor.
WOW, IT IS BETTER!
It crashes less, and runs longer!:eek: :eek:
Programs appear in semi-see-through frames that pop open and close with an animated swoosh. Icons can be instantly resized with a slider (yes, like pictures stored in Apple Inc. (nasdaq: AAPL - news - people )'s iPhoto).
In fact, the improved search - which had been available for Windows XP users through add-on programs - is fully integrated throughout Vista (much like the latest version of Mac OS X, released in April 2005).
By default, the right side of the screen is filled with small programs known as gadgets, displaying headlines, weather, microprocessor loads, memory utilization - whatever. (The idea isn't new: Mac OS X has "Widgets," and other companies have offered similar lightweight application layers for years.)
Vista adopts "user authentication," which prompts you before the installation of anything that might muck up the system. Oddly - and unlike Mac OS X and Linux - it doesn't require a username or password. |
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| 2005exlPilot |
quote:
Vista adopts "user authentication," which prompts you before the installation of anything that might muck up the system. Oddly - and unlike Mac OS X and Linux - it doesn't require a username or password.
Hmmm, experts can get it wrong too. But that's okay, they are journalists not software geeks :D :D |
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| rocky |
I'm ignoring vista until perhaps a PC needs replacing.
At that point I might buy an apple...... |
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| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by rocky
I'm ignoring vista until perhaps a PC needs replacing.
At that point I might buy an apple......
what?! microsoft will lose market share if you're gonna switch! ;) :D |
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| rocky |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
what?! microsoft will lose market share if you're gonna switch! ;) :D
Sorry Bill! |
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| Sportymonk |
| Admittedly I am an Apple person but even when I step back and objectively look at Vista, it is amazing the number of comments to the effect of how"Mac Like" Vista is. Also there seems to be a lack of excitement this time. Microsoft admits that most consumers will upgrade when they get a new computer. That is a problem for Microsoft in that many are happy and content with what they have ( I am :D ). But seriously, most people can do what they want. I wonder how many people want to upgrade to the system requirements of Vista (requirements or 'real requirements') just to have Vista. This is where Apple is picking up steam (Recently announced 50% of all Mac purchases were from people who were new to Macs). When people want a system where they can easily work with their photos, make slideshows, burn DVDs, work with music, put all that together then Apple is the choice. As we move away from word processing to integrating music, photos, movies, and portable sound, Apple leads the way. |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Sportymonk
Admittedly I am an Apple person but even when I step back and objectively look at Vista, it is amazing the number of comments to the effect of how"Mac Like" Vista is. Also there seems to be a lack of excitement this time. Microsoft admits that most consumers will upgrade when they get a new computer. That is a problem for Microsoft in that many are happy and content with what they have ( I am :D ). But seriously, most people can do what they want. I wonder how many people want to upgrade to the system requirements of Vista (requirements or 'real requirements') just to have Vista. This is where Apple is picking up steam (Recently announced 50% of all Mac purchases were from people who were new to Macs). When people want a system where they can easily work with their photos, make slideshows, burn DVDs, work with music, put all that together then Apple is the choice. As we move away from word processing to integrating music, photos, movies, and portable sound, Apple leads the way.
I'll get a new OS when I get a new computer - Leopard!:D |
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| Sportymonk |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
I'll get a new OS when I get a new computer - Leopard!:D
I am still running Panther. Powerbook came with Jaguar but got the upgrade for $39 I think. They let the folks who had bought a Mac since Oct 1 03 get it at a discount and then they let the Powerbook folks who bought since Sept 16th get in on it.
Father's Day wish List has Leopard on it.
Funny how MS couldn't get Vista (Longhorn) out without long delays and dropping features. Apple has kept their OS up to date and at reasonable prices. |
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| 2005exlPilot |
| It's amazing how history repeats itself. News articles, experts, users on boards, etc said the same thing when XP shipped - oh, windows 2000 is just fine and nobody needs the eye candy, yadda yadda. :2::2::2: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Sportymonk
I am still running Panther. Powerbook came with Jaguar but got the upgrade for $39 I think. They let the folks who had bought a Mac since Oct 1 03 get it at a discount and then they let the Powerbook folks who bought since Sept 16th get in on it.
Father's Day wish List has Leopard on it.
Funny how MS couldn't get Vista (Longhorn) out without long delays and dropping features. Apple has kept their OS up to date and at reasonable prices.
If the PC market had a narrow a hardware base as the mac market, it would be easy also.
What is the oldest machine that runs OSX?
What is the oldest machine that runs XP or Vista?
How many bust structures does OSX support?
How many processors does OSX support?
How many different port types does OSX support? |
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| Sportymonk |
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007...?partner=alerts
Yet Microsoft detractors, Mac users, and even PC-oriented magazine editors are pointing to how some of those features already exist on Macs. And Apple - set to release its own upgrade to its Mac OS X operating system, code-named "Leopard," this spring - has already promised more innovations, such as automatic backups of files and advanced animation features.
The Cupertino-based company has repeatedly ribbed Microsoft to "start its photocopiers." |
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| Scoobs |
quote:
These are folks who have long since bought into the Steve Jobs's notion that the sizzle is more important than the steak. PC users have traditionally preferred the steak over the sizzle. So what happens now?
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Sportymonk
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007...?partner=alerts
Yet Microsoft detractors, Mac users, and even PC-oriented magazine editors are pointing to how some of those features already exist on Macs. And Apple - set to release its own upgrade to its Mac OS X operating system, code-named "Leopard," this spring - has already promised more innovations, such as automatic backups of files and advanced animation features.
The Cupertino-based company has repeatedly ribbed Microsoft to "start its photocopiers."
XP already has automatic back-ups with One-Care.
Guess Apple is copying MS this time. |
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| dontnomuch007 |
| Only thing I don't like on Mac is their mouse come with one button. What are they trying to say? Users are too dumb to use two buttons? Can't they make them come standard with two buttons? I think I would be willing to switch when Apple makes this change. :confused: |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by dontnomuch007
Only thing I don't like on Mac is their mouse come with one button. What are they trying to say? Users are too dumb to use two buttons? Can't they make them come standard with two buttons? I think I would be willing to switch when Apple makes this change. :confused:
They already have; Mighty Mouse ships standard with all Macs now. It looks like a one button mouse with a scroll wheel, but does in fact sense right or left clicks and operates as a two-button mouse. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
They already have; Mighty Mouse ships standard with all Macs now. It looks like a one button mouse with a scroll wheel, but does in fact sense right or left clicks and operates as a two-button mouse.
It's all in the marketing.
After all these years of fighting the two button mouse, they can't just say "oops, we were wrong". |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
It's all in the marketing.
After all these years of fighting the two button mouse, they can't just say "oops, we were wrong".
Actually, it isn't all in the marketing, in this case. Mighty Mouse is a one button mouse, but the technology inside detects when the user intended a left click or a right click, even though there truly are not separate buttons on the mouse. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
Actually, it isn't all in the marketing, in this case. Mighty Mouse is a one button mouse, but the technology inside detects when the user intended a left click or a right click, even though there truly are not separate buttons on the mouse.
Or does it just have two "touch sensitive" portions of the shell (sounds like buttons to me).
But apple is good at marketing. |
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| robottik |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
If the PC market had a narrow a hardware base as the mac market, it would be easy also.
What is the oldest machine that runs OSX?
What is the oldest machine that runs XP or Vista?
How many bust structures does OSX support?
How many processors does OSX support?
How many different port types does OSX support?
Gotta agree with you on that one. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robottik
Gotta agree with you on that one.
Yep, but it is an issue that the mac aficionados never want to discuss.:rolleyes: |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
How many bust structures does OSX support?
[BEAVISANDBUTTHEADVOICE] heh, heh, he said bust....... [/BEAVISANDBUTTHEADVOICE] :D |
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| jl_ss |
| The free copy of Vista that came with my new notebook should arrive soon. I've been seeing a lot of installation reports that say if you have a simpler system, then Vista installs fine. But if you have any higher end components, then it may not be compatible or you may get stuck with a generic driver that hobbles that components features and performance - even if the system is sold as Vista-ready. Here's a Vista installation video that has been making the rounds: Link |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
The free copy of Vista that came with my new notebook should arrive soon. I've been seeing a lot of installation reports that say if you have a simpler system, then Vista installs fine. But if you have any higher end components, then it may not be compatible or you may get stuck with a generic driver that hobbles that components features and performance - even if the system is sold as Vista-ready. Here's a Vista installation video that has been making the rounds: Link
I think that video was already posted (or maybe it was on another forum).
I guess someone did not want to hurt that guys feels by telling him his video idea was stupid.
He could have at least been a bit creative, or maybe showed a BSOD or something.
EDIT:
An oldy but a goody:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axC-7O4Yq-w |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I guess someone did not want to hurt that guys feels by telling him his video idea was stupid.
I guess you tend to do "stupid" things out of frustration after spending hours trying install Vista on a brand new high end Dell that was sold as Vista ready. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
I guess you tend to do "stupid" things out of frustration after spending hours trying install Vista on a brand new high end Dell that was sold as Vista ready.
Where in that video does he do anything that shows he even tried?
E.G. the Vista package was unopened.
He never said it was a "high end Dell"
He never said it was "Vista Ready"
I am sure he thought he was being "brilliant" and "funny".:rolleyes: |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Where in that video does he do anything that shows he even tried?
E.G. the Vista package was unopened.
He never said it was a "high end Dell"
He never said it was "Vista Ready"
I am sure he thought he was being "brilliant" and "funny".:rolleyes:
All of the background is not on the video - I caught the half hour he spent discussing it on his nationally syndicated radio show. He is actually tech literate and owns Macs and PCs but really has expressed no bias for either, using each for their own strengths. The background is that he bought a new high end Dell that was Vista ready and after several hours of BSOD installs he narrowed it down to a video card incompatibility. I'm sure the video was made to be amusing but it does reflect his experience. Does Vista come Shrink wrapped? Because he is not removing any shrink wrap. In any event he mentioned on his show that he bought 1 copy for each of his PCs, so he could be shredding another copy.
I've heard several of the same type of stories from several different sources and in reality, it really comes down to taking a chance that the Vista Ready machine you are buying is really compatible. The Vista Ready labeling does give the disclaimer that not all features may be compatible - but most really expect to be able to load the system on their new Vista-Ready machines, at the worst maybe having to wait for an updated driver for full feature sets.
I don't view this as a Vista technical problem unless the peripheral companies were not given enough driver development time. It's really a computer company/hardware problem. Dell slaps a Vista-Ready sticker on their machine that they have not fully tested. After installation problems, however, it gets perceived as a Vista problem by your average user and not a hardware problem. |
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| N_Jay |
I have not done the Vista upgrade yet.
I leave most of the beta testing to my 15 year old nephew.
He has installed several pre-release version, with only peripheral incompatibilities, and just installed full versions of several existing machines with no problems.
I wonder what video card he had that was incompatible? |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by dontnomuch007
Is that a MAC in the background?
Why should there not be one there.
MS sold lots of MAC SW.
And Bill B did not have much hair way back then. :) |
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| ramirami |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
And Bill B did not have much hair way back then. :)
look at the bright side... he has not lost a lot of hair in 20 years :-) |
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| 5Gs |
quote:
Originally posted by ramirami
look at the bright side... he has not lost a lot of hair in 20 years :-)
I don't think ballmer ever had hair up there! :D he doesn't look much different than he does now. gates definitely looks a lot younger in that pic. |
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| Sportymonk |
Good spot!!
Like Forbes has siad in an article, let the folks in Redmond Washington warm up their copiers! Bythe way, most of the tech press is already making comments about how "Mac-like" Vista is. Oh well, OS X Leopard is about ot come out and MS will be left to play catch up again.
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
can anyone see in the picture/link what looks out of place?
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/20...LIDESHOW_8.html
what should we copy next? ;)
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Sportymonk
Good spot!!
Like Forbes has siad in an article, let the folks in Redmond Washington warm up their copiers! Bythe way, most of the tech press is already making comments about how "Mac-like" Vista is. Oh well, OS X Leopard is about ot come out and MS will be left to play catch up again.
Yea, Yea,
"MS copied the mac",. is about as original a claim as "Bush stole the election", and has about as much creditability.
What about the fact that Apples copied Xerox?
Almost every advance follows what came before it.
Why is Leopard coming out? I though OSX was the be-all-end-all?
Have the figured out how to make it run on more then one microP achitecure yet?
What percentage of existing Macs wont run Leopard? |
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| ThePilotster |
Heres another apple slam to vista. Most PC'c score 1 - 5.9 in the system benchmark scoring..
Heres a link where a mac pro scored 5.7 right outta the box,,,, running mac OX and XP all at the same time :)
http://www.mobiletechreview.com/edi...ista-on-Mac.htm |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePilotster
. . . Most PC'c score 1 - 5.9 in the system benchmark scoring..
Heres a link where a mac pro scored 5.7 right outta the box . . .http://www.mobiletechreview.com/edi...ista-on-Mac.htm
Here's another apple slam to you senses:
The article said; "The scale currently runs from 1.0 to 5.9"
Yet TehPilotster freely interpreted it for you.
Can you give us the score for any group of PCs, or preferable a PC in the same price class as a MAC Pro?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
EDIT:
Holy crappolla!!!!
A mac pro is a $2000 to $3500 machine with no monitor!!!!!!!!!!!
I haven't spent that on a single computer EVER!
I don't need friggin dual boot, as I can easily build TWO vista machines for that much!!! |
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| mattchalmers |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Yea, Yea,
"MS copied the mac",. is about as original a claim as "Bush stole the election", and has about as much creditability.
Just a point of information, Bush didn't steal the election, he just didn't win (the popular vote, that is). :2: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by mattchalmers
Just a point of information, Bush didn't steal the election, he just didn't win (the popular vote, that is). :2:
Point was not in dispute. :confused: :rolleyes:
:2: :2: :2: |
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| ThePilotster |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Can you give us the score for any group of PCs, or preferable a PC in the same price class as a MAC Pro?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Sure heres a link to a Dell 8400 Intel P4 3.2 Ghz, 2GB RAM, ATI Radeon X1300 256MB Graphics card, running dual 19" screens at 1280x1024.
http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/...82&postcount=42
If you search the web... most top dog Windows PC's with dual core chips are running a score of 5.0 ... those are $2600.00 PC's with all the headaches that go along with Spam and virus's...
Heres another link that shows some other power packed machines:)
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=37 |
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| 5Gs |
| wow, I was just having fun with that image, with the mac on the desktop in an office at microsoft. I think others were having fun with that too. but n_jay, nothing personal...your posts sure make you look grouchy. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by ThePilotster
Sure heres a link to a Dell 8400 Intel P4 3.2 Ghz, 2GB RAM, ATI Radeon X1300 256MB Graphics card, running dual 19" screens at 1280x1024.
That is about an 800 machine with a $150 video card.
I bet the graphics numbers would have come up with the $250 video card in the mac.
quote:
Originally posted by ThePilotster
[B] Heres another link that shows some other power packed machines:)
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=37
Hu? Must be a different page?
quote:
Originally posted by ThePilotster
If you search the web... most top dog Windows PC's with dual core chips are running a score of 5.0 ... those are $2600.00 PC's
Why not a link or two, since both of the links you did provide do not prove your point.
EDIT:
Went to the MAC store, that Mac Pro prices out at $3800, and a top of the line quad core Dell gaming system with similar memory, video and such is about $2400
With the extra $1400 I can certainly build a second very good VISTA machine. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by 5Gs
wow, I was just having fun with that image, with the mac on the desktop in an office at microsoft. I think others were having fun with that too. but n_jay, nothing personal...your posts sure make you look grouchy.
Only on a good day. :p :D
:2: :2: :2:
I just find it interesting when people point out thinks like that in "surprise". |
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| ThePilotster |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Why not a link or two, since both of the links you did provide do not prove your point.
Heres (2) My links worked at work and home...sorry
http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=37
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/w...ges/458117.aspx
Heres an excerpt from the 2nd link incase it does not work... basically a score of 6 if fairly non existent from a PC stand point and is not expected for 12 to 18 months...hmmm Mac score 5.7 now :)
quote:
The following are detailed descriptions of each of the base score levels:
1.0
A base score of 1.0 is intended to reflect the minimum specification needed to run Windows Vista™. PCs that meet this level will run Windows Vista™ in a basic, but acceptable manner. This is a “catch all” level assigned to any machine that can realistically upgrade to Windows Vista™ but won’t meet Level 2 specifications.
2.0
A base score of 2.0 represents the mainstream Windows Vista upgrade target system. This level of PC may run Windows Aero but users may see noticeable performance issues from time to time, especially on PCs with scores less than 2.5 and/or 64MB of graphics memory. Performance issues may also be noticeable when opening many application windows at the same time or when using very large monitors.
3.0
This level represents the value end of machines that will ship at the end of 2006 and into 2007. This is the lowest capability Windows Premium Logo PC that will ship with Windows Vista™ pre-installed. Windows Vista will generally enable Aero automatically on level 3 machines. Aero will perform quite well on level 3 machines with single monitors. With dual monitors (especially larger than 1280x1024), users may see noticeable performance issues from time to time, especially on machines with scores less than 3.5 and/or 128MB of graphics memory.
4.0
This level of machine represents a very good performing machine. In late 2006 and 2007 machines at this level will be considered high end. All Windows Vista features will run well with snappy performance. HD playback and recording of one HD stream will work well. 3D games and other high-end 3D applications will run acceptably on Level 4 machines. Multi-tasking will be quite good on these machines (when an application makes use of this capability). Many mid to high level 4 PCs will have dual core CPUs.
5.0
This level of machine represents the highest end of the PC market – gaming machines, high performance desktops, powerful media center systems and the like. Level 5 PCs will dramatically exceed the Windows Premium logo requirements. They will easily run Aero-Glass on multi-monitor systems at high resolution. First person shooters, multiple HD streams, video creation, high end multimedia applications are all characteristic scenarios of people who will be using Level 5 systems. As Level 6 machines are not defined yet, it is possible that the highest performance and capable Level 5 machines may be re-leveled as level 6 in the future (i.e. that may happen if the new hardware is evaluated before the index is updated with the new capabilities).
6.0 and beyond
Base scores of 6.0 and higher are not defined yet. They will be defined when the time comes and new innovations in hardware allow new capabilities. From past experience, it is expected this will happen at a rate of once every 12-18 months
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