| boviki |
Hi!
I am a Pilot owner and we are considering purchasing a second Honda vehicle. However I am torn between the Accord (hate the styling of the 4 door one) and the 2 Accura sedans - TL and TSX. I know this forum is about Honda Pilot and I am a proud owner of one:) I just want to hear what people who are familiar with both have to say. Any opinion would be appreciated.
Thanks |
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| whizmo |
Unless you need the extra room of the Accord, I strongly vote TSX. I've driven both and the TSX is a lot more fun to drive. Performance and economy from the 4-cyl is also very impressive. The Accord is a fine car, but it's very bland. The TSX has some spice.
The TL is a fine car, but in another class - basically a FWD BMW. And in this class, I'd go RWD - either the G35 or the BMW 328i. When you get north of 200-hp, you really need AWD or RWD.
The Accord is due for remake this fall. Don't know about the TSX remake schedule.
- Mark |
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| boviki |
Thanks for your quick reply. I forgot to mention that I am talking about a V6 Accord. Does your oppinion still stand?
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Unless you need the extra room of the Accord, I strongly vote TSX. I've driven both and the TSX is a lot more fun to drive. Performance and economy from the 4-cyl is also very impressive. The Accord is a fine car, but it's very bland. The TSX has some spice.
The TL is a fine car, but in another class - basically a FWD BMW. And in this class, I'd go RWD - either the G35 or the BMW 328i. When you get north of 200-hp, you really need AWD or RWD.
The Accord is due for remake this fall. Don't know about the TSX remake schedule.
- Mark
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| sjlee |
The TSX is based off the European Honda Accord, which is smaller than the US version. It'll handle better and has a nicer interior than the Accord, but it requires premium fuel and gets about the same gas mileage.
The TL shares the same platform as the Accord, but again has a nicer interior. It also has sportier styling, and the engine has been tweaked to get higher performance (with premium fuel).
The TSX is about the same price as a fully loaded Accord EX-L (high 20s), while the TL is priced in the mid 30s.
All three cars have FWD. I think which one you choose will depend on what your priorities are.
The Accord will give you the most bang for your buck, but like you said the exterior styling is pretty bland. The TSX will be "nimbler" than the other two cars, but is the slowest to 60 mph. The TL costs the most, but you get the sportier styling and more luxurious interior.
I would test drive all three and decide what's more important to you.
Like whizmo said, an all-new Accord will be released soon, so you may want to wait to see what that looks like. Of course, that being the case, you can probably get some really good deals on Accords this fall. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
The TL is a fine car, but in another class - basically a FWD BMW. And in this class, I'd go RWD - either the G35 or the BMW 328i. When you get north of 200-hp, you really need AWD or RWD.
There are many FWD cars out there that have over 200 HP (Accord, Camry, TSX, TL, Maxima, Altima, etc.). Torque steer is minimized with an LSD in some models, while in other cases if you get an AT, the power to the wheels isn't as much, which will lessen torque steer. Unless you're going to really push the car, you won't notice the limitations of FWD.
Since he's in MN, I'm not sure if RWD is an option he's willing to consider. |
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| pilotowner1 |
quote:
Originally posted by boviki
Hi!
I am a Pilot owner and we are considering purchasing a second Honda vehicle. However I am torn between the Accord (hate the styling of the 4 door one) and the 2 Accura sedans - TL and TSX. I know this forum is about Honda Pilot and I am a proud owner of one:) I just want to hear what people who are familiar with both have to say. Any opinion would be appreciated.
Thanks
I own a TSX (04) - love the car it has not given me that much problems (except for occassional rattles) and still drives great like the day I bought it (April 03). The next gen accord - from the pictures I've seen, it looks better than previous gen. |
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| sjlee |
FYI... I will be in the boat as you soon, as I will eventually be replacing my Integra and have looked at all three as potentials.
I'm also considering the new Civic Si sedan, but it may be too small or too sparse for your needs. |
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| rkpeck |
I went through the process of deciding between a V-6 Accord and TL last year. Initially I'd considered a TSX, but my wife belived it to be too cramped. The decision between Accord and TL came down to a series of variables that only you can decide what's most important. In the end, at least for me, was the fact that I'd had an Accord of some kind in the garage about 25 years. Decided at 50 it was time for a change and I went with the TL.
The ride in the TL is so much nicer that the Pilot, but the RES in the Pilot still makes that our extended ride crusier. The RES is the best possible way to get a car full of kids quiet and keep them quiet for quite some time.
Roger |
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| jl_ss |
| I spent a lot of time in loaner TSXs and TLs while they tried to work out the problems with our MDX. I wasn't impressed with the TSX. It was very cramped and I got sick of flooring it to get any power. The suspension was on the stiff side also. It was more like driving a civic. The TL on the other hand was much better. I haven't driven a V6 Accord, but from my experience with the TSX, I'd go with either the TL or the V6 Accord depending on your price point. |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by boviki Thanks for your quick reply. I forgot to mention that I am talking about a V6 Accord. Does your oppinion still stand?
Yes, even moreso. The V6 Accord is a very nice car, but it's very soft, very front-end heavy, and very FWD.
All the comments in this thread are good - it all depends on what you want.
A TSX is an enthusiast/driver car, well-balanced, high-revving, somewhat small inside. It has about the maximum power you can put down in a FWD without excessive understeer and wheelspin. The TL and V6 Accords are big/heavy powerful FWD luxury sedans that handle like crap at the limit. They're very nice if you stay witihin their modest limits.
Yes, there are a lot of very powerful FWD cars out there today. And frankly, they all handle poorly when you use all that power. FWD and high power just don't mix very well. You can try and engineer out the torque steer and add all kinds of electronic gizmos to limit wheelspin, but in the end, no 250-hp FWD car is going to handle very well at the limit. Honda finally is getting this and going to AWD on cars like the RL - this will trickle down the line shortly.
If you're an enthusiast who enjoys a spirited drive, the TSX is a great ride. Or if you want a six-cyl, then the G35 and 328i are excellent - both are available with AWD if you need it, although since you're keeping the Pilot, I assuming snow driving isn't a governing criteria. (I'm not a believer that FWD is inherently superior to RWD in snow anyway. Tires are what matters.)
If you want a luxury car and coddles you more, then the V6 Accord and TL are fine machines. But neither is a very good sports sedan.
As I said, all depends on where you put the sport vs. luxury slider.
- Mark |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
(I'm not a believer that FWD is inherently superior to RWD in snow anyway. Tires are what matters.)
With the same set of tires, a FWD vehicle will have better traction than a RWD vehicle. You can get away with all-season tires in snow on a FWD car... with a RWD car dedicated snow tires are almost a necessity.
The advantage is that with FWD, the weight of the engine and transaxle is over the drive wheels, which helps with traction, but hurts handling.
I do agree with you that if you plan on driving with an emphasis on "sport", then a RWD or AWD vehicle will be better option.
The G35 and 328i are both great performing cars... if only they would improve on their reliability. |
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| boviki |
Thanks for your in depth reply. This new vehicle will be my wife's and she would like a sporty car, but she also likes them big. I'm trying to get her to consider the points about size vs. handling. I hope we'll agree and I won't feel that she's making a mistake. She will, in the end, make that decision.
Thanks again.
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Yes, even moreso. The V6 Accord is a very nice car, but it's very soft, very front-end heavy, and very FWD.
All the comments in this thread are good - it all depends on what you want.
A TSX is an enthusiast/driver car, well-balanced, high-revving, somewhat small inside. It has about the maximum power you can put down in a FWD without excessive understeer and wheelspin. The TL and V6 Accords are big/heavy powerful FWD luxury sedans that handle like crap at the limit. They're very nice if you stay witihin their modest limits.
Yes, there are a lot of very powerful FWD cars out there today. And frankly, they all handle poorly when you use all that power. FWD and high power just don't mix very well. You can try and engineer out the torque steer and add all kinds of electronic gizmos to limit wheelspin, but in the end, no 250-hp FWD car is going to handle very well at the limit. Honda finally is getting this and going to AWD on cars like the RL - this will trickle down the line shortly.
If you're an enthusiast who enjoys a spirited drive, the TSX is a great ride. Or if you want a six-cyl, then the G35 and 328i are excellent - both are available with AWD if you need it, although since you're keeping the Pilot, I assuming snow driving isn't a governing criteria. (I'm not a believer that FWD is inherently superior to RWD in snow anyway. Tires are what matters.)
If you want a luxury car and coddles you more, then the V6 Accord and TL are fine machines. But neither is a very good sports sedan.
As I said, all depends on where you put the sport vs. luxury slider.
- Mark
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by boviki
Thanks for your in depth reply. This new vehicle will be my wife's and she would like a sporty car, but she also likes them big.
Never met a woman yet who doesn't absolutely love the V6 Accord.
- Mark |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
The Accord is due for remake this fall. Don't know about the TSX remake schedule.
There will likely be a redesigned model released in late 2008 (2009 model).
Rumors are that it will be powered by a turbo I4 (similar to the RDX). |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
With the same set of tires, a FWD vehicle will have better traction than a RWD vehicle. You can get away with all-season tires in snow on a FWD car... with a RWD car dedicated snow tires are almost a necessity.
I agree to a point.
The thing people forget is that a FWD car's weight distribution will typically be about 62%/38% unloaded vs. 50/50 with RWD. So everything else being equal, the FWD will get more traction in marginal situations.
But we don't drive cars unloaded. When you start adding a load a car, the weight distribution starts to shift rearward for all cars. as all weight is added aft of the car's center of gravity. With just front seat passengers, the FWD will keep a small advantage. Put any rear-seat passengers in the car and it's about a wash. And if you load up the trunk, the weight bias shifts so far rearward that a RWD car will actually get more traction in the snow.
The bottom line is that if you throw a couple 50-lb bags of cement in the trunk of a RWD car, you're probably going to do just as well as a FWD in most situations.
And I'll take a RWD with dedicated snow tires over a FWD with all-seasons no matter what the loading. Tires make a much bigger difference than FWD vs. RWD.
- Mark |
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| deparson |
The TSX is a great car though smaller than the Accord. It is much tighter and can take corners much faster than the Accord.
However, the TSX has a very small engine tuned very 'hot'. At some points it feels like it has a lot of power and at other points it feels like it has very very little power. This detracts from the otherwise very sporty feel of the car.
The V6 Accord has a good deal more power and it is available more often. You never feel like you might be out of power when you want it. However, the Accord has a softer ride so you can't take corners at quickly as the TSX. This could be offset in part by different rubber but you will never get there all together.
Be sure to drive them both. Ideally, drive them for a couple of hours. At first the TSX seemed to have a lot of power but after some driving I found the power to be wanting in many cases. |
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| whizmo |
On the Accord vs. TSX question, the litmus test is really whether you'd get it with a manual or automatic. If you'd get it with an auto, then I'd probably tend towards the Accord. Autos really sap the power out of a high-revving engine like is in the TSX - it makes plenty of power, but you've got to keep the revs up and that's hard to do with an automatic.
The TSX is the Euro Accord. They're priorities are different than ours - they want a fuel efficient, lighter, more compact, more nimble car and they are less enamored with luxury features. The US Accord is specifically designed for our different priorities.
My priorities are much more aligned with the Euros, but then I drive a Mini.
- Mark |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
On the Accord vs. TSX question, the litmus test is really whether you'd get it with a manual or automatic. If you'd get it with an auto, then I'd probably tend towards the Accord. Autos really sap the power out of a high-revving engine like is in the TSX - it makes plenty of power, but you've got to keep the revs up and that's hard to do with an automatic.
The TSX is the Euro Accord. They're priorities are different than ours - they want a fuel efficient, lighter, more compact, more nimble car and they are less enamored with luxury features. The US Accord is specifically designed for our different priorities.
My priorities are much more aligned with the Euros, but then I drive a Mini.
- Mark
I would argue the point that the TSX is more fuel efficient than the TL. The TL has an EPA mpg of 20/29 while the TSX auto is 23/31 (TSX manual is 22/30). In real life driving of the TSX, I was up high in the revs a lot of the time to keep up with traffic. In the TL, the engine was barely working to drive in the same traffic. I didn't have either long enough to note mpg but I would bet that both get nearly the same mpg in real traffic. The same reason we got nearly the same mpg with our Pilot and our CRV. |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
I would argue the point that the TSX is more fuel efficient than the TL. The TL has an EPA mpg of 20/29 while the TSX auto is 23/31 (TSX manual is 22/30). In real life driving of the TSX, I was up high in the revs a lot of the time to keep up with traffic. In the TL, the engine was barely working to drive in the same traffic. I didn't have either long enough to note mpg but I would bet that both get nearly the same mpg in real traffic. The same reason we got nearly the same mpg with our Pilot and our CRV.
While I don't think a 3.5L 260-hp V6 pushing a 3625-lb car is ever going to match a 2.4L 205-hp I4 pushing 3350-lb no matter how it is driven, your point is well taken - the difference is unlikely to be terribly significant.
- Mark |
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| croccan |
My 1996 Acura Integra was stolen last summer and I needed another car to replace it. I already have an'03 Pilot.
I chose a 2006 TSX with a 6-speed. I love it. Although the TL was very nice and the new TL type S is insanely nice, I did not want another 6 cyl and a large car pmt b/c I am buying a house this year.
The 6 speed certainly has some pep, and if you try, you could probably pick up an '06 at a significant discount. |
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| Luwin1026 |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
On the Accord vs. TSX question, the litmus test is really whether you'd get it with a manual or automatic.
+1 - the V6 Accord had plenty of power but at the end of the day, the wife wanted something she can row her own gears as well as a sporty drive. TSX it was for her with the 6MT - she wanted to tighten up handling as well so a set of SWIFT coilovers were installed along with some 18" Advans, but the ride suffered a bit and she didn't like the looks/revs she got when a modded/souped-up/ricer/etc. would pull next to her, so the 18's were ditched in favor of the stockies. Only gripe I have about that is the stock all-season Michelins - but nothing that a replacement when they wear out can't fix.
When our daughter came, the S2000 went and the Pilot came. So the TSX became primarily my car - although I strongly prefer the capabilities/feel of an RWD as I've been used to them, for a FWD, the TSX is tuned very sporty and I've had lots of fun driving it. Interior/exterior panels is excellent, perhaps due to the fact that it's assembled in Japan. I think it's a great value for what it is - a sporty, peppy, practical sedan. Now that our daughter is 15-months old, I'm considering trading it in for another S2000, but that's another story altogether.
Go and test drive the three, and try to spend considerable time in them and assess which one best serves your needs/priorities.
Best of luck in your search!! |
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| switch |
I had a V6 Accord. My wife has a new 4 cylinder Accord. I've driven the TSX for a period, and the TL for a short bit.
The TSX is an upscale Accord that handles better. It also has a better stereo, but that isn't saying much. This is a car that feels like it needs to be run at high RPMs. It requires premium gas. The automatic transmission is good, but IMO it doesn't cut it if you want a performance oriented car. The ride is good, but no better than the Accord. The interior room is noticeably smaller than the Accord. If you have 4 people who aren't big, the TSX is fine. If you want to haul some people around, or go on a long trip, the Accord will be more comfortable.
The TL is in another league. It's a very good balance between performance and luxury. Great handling, great ride, excellent fit/finish, excellent accessories, and unlike a BMW, it will be affordable in the long run.
The 4 cylinder Accord, in automatic, goes surprisingly well. In fact, the mating of the engine and automatic transmission is done very well and the car drives more like a small 6 cylinder.
For an automatic, I'd probably choose the Accord V6. It feels a bit nose heavy as compared to the 4 cylinder version, or the TSX, but it still handles quite well. The power is plentiful and always there, and the ride is good.
Like others have said, it comes down to whether you want true sportiness or not.
I don't want to sound blasphemous, but if I was looking at these vehicles, I'd definitely be looking at the new V6 Camry too. |
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| boviki |
Thank you ALL for your opinions. I will definitely take the three for a test drive before we make any decission. I do want to look at a new Accord - it may hold the answer to all my questions. I'm hoping to see some info this summer.
Thanks again (feel free, however, to keep commenting - any info is very much appreciated.) |
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| sski |
Ah Yes, Accord vs. TSX vs. TL.
I'm driving a 2000 Altima now that will need to be replaced and I too am pretty much just looking at Honda products (or Toyota if the deal is right).
If I was single, and it was my only car, it would be a Pearl White TL, no question. For me it will be a second car as well. I agree the Accord is probably the best value, I also agree the styling of the Accord is bland. My friend has an 2007 EX-L,V6, Navi (former executive demo. I don't think there are anymore options). It just does not grab me.
You may want to look at the restyled Accord. I figure everything good about the Accord will remain plus they have designed, what I think is a sleek looking car. From what I've seen both coupe and sedan look nice. |
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| whizmo |
While you're taking test rides, DEFINITELY drive the G35 too.
- Mark |
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| boviki |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
While you're taking test rides, DEFINITELY drive the G35 too.
- Mark
I hear it's a lot more expensive than TL since the new G35 is still fresh and hot. My relative in northern Cal just buoght a TL for 30K and he said they would not budge from 35K for G35 (I'm not sure 4WD or RWD) |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by boviki
I hear it's a lot more expensive than TL since the new G35 is still fresh and hot. My relative in northern Cal just buoght a TL for 30K and he said they would not budge from 35K for G35 (I'm not sure 4WD or RWD)
Plus the interior of the G35 is still not as nice as the TL (even with the redesign). With these types of cars (sport sedans), there is always a trade-off between luxury and performance. With the TL, there's more emphasis on luxury, while with the G35 there's more emphasis on performance.
I don't think you can go wrong with either car, it just depends on what type of balance you prefer.
Also, reliability for the TL seems to be better than the G35. |
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| whizmo |
Last time I looked at the data, reliability on the G was about the same as the TL. The TL hasn't been trouble-free either.
Again, last time I looked, the base price on the TL was more than the G and I'd expect the same to be true of comparably priced models. IF you go AWD, then the G gets pricer, but the TL doesn't even offer AWD.
A dealer I was talking to two years ago was happy to discuss invoice pricing on a non-AWD G. This was the old model and the new one, I'm sure, is more n demand, but then so is the new TL. I don't have any hard data, but I'd suspect when the day is done, that someone would spend LESS for a comparably-priced G than the TL.
I agree that the TL is more nicely finished and has a nicer interior. The G interior still seems like Altima-quality. So the tradeoff truly might be the superior handling vs. the nicer interior of the TL.
I'll freely admit that I don't like the TL. It's s beautiful, swoopy. luxurious, and wonderfully finished. But in terms of driver enjoyment and handling, it's not even in the same league as a 328i (or G). Not even close. It's a great car if you want a powerful (in a straight line), sporty-looking, velvety smooth and quiet car with a great nav and stereo system. I find it very unsatisfying to drive. But that's just me.
If I were buying a big sports sedan today, I'd get a 335i if I could afford it. Otherwise, it would be the 328i. Actually the car I'd really like to have BMW doesn't import to the US. A 1-seires diesel.
- Mark |
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| jclay1967 |
| I think that if you go to the Honda website, you can see photographs and models of the upcoming 2 door accord. To my understanding the 4 door has not been previewed yet. If the 4 door looks anything like the 2 door...It is going to be smokin... |
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| GreenMachine |
| From what I have read, BMW's reliabilty is not as good as the other two. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
A dealer I was talking to two years ago was happy to discuss invoice pricing on a non-AWD G. This was the old model and the new one, I'm sure, is more n demand, but then so is the new TL. I don't have any hard data, but I'd suspect when the day is done, that someone would spend LESS for a comparably-priced G than the TL.
The TL technically isn't new anymore (released in 2004), so the demand has gone down quite a bit... especially since that time a new G35 and 3-series have been released.
Using Edmunds' TMV Calculator for my area, a base TL costs less than a comparably equipped G35 (Journey model with Technology Package). Of course, it isn't a huge amount... only about $871. |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by BlueRiverPilot
I think that if you go to the Honda website, you can see photographs and models of the upcoming 2 door accord. To my understanding the 4 door has not been previewed yet. If the 4 door looks anything like the 2 door...It is going to be smokin...
Not sure if I like that rear end, but like with most concepts, the actual production model is usually much more conservatively styled. In fact, in many cases the sedan is more bland than the coupe.
I'm interested in seeing the new Accord, but I'm not expecting anything like the concept. |
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| switch |
| Another conceptual rendering, but I doubt this is it: |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by switch
Another conceptual rendering, but I doubt this is it:
Actually, from what I've read, that is the concept that is being used for the next TSX (Euro Accord). |
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| BlueRiverPilot |
| The bottom one looks like a TSX |
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| ecsw |
quote:
Originally posted by switch
Another conceptual rendering, but I doubt this is it:
that's the concept for Euro/JDM accord which will be for 2008 TSX. |
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| whizmo |
Both these renderings look great, but I don't think Honda will take such styling risks with their bread/butter family sedan. I do agree this might be a good time to stay on the sidelines and see what happens on the Accord (and maybe the TSX too). I've always thought the Accord was probably the best overall car in it's class, but the styling has been strictly novacaine/Buick for the last couple interations.
Of course, with how often cars are reworked these days, you have to take the leap at some point. And even on a Honda, I feel more comfortable in the 2nd year of a major redesign.
On the BMW reliabliity question, they're not great, but they're not that bad either. They've been generally average for the past couple years. And we are into the noise level on car reliablities with most makes - the difference between an average car (e.g., 328i) and a much better than average care (e.g., Accord) might be something like 0.7 problems per year vs. 1.3 problems. At this level, I'll buy what I like to drive and not worry too much about it.
- Mark |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Of course, with how often cars are reworked these days, you have to take the leap at some point. And even on a Honda, I feel more comfortable in the 2nd year of a major redesign.
I agree. In fact, waiting until this fall could be an optimal time since dealerships will most likely still have new 2007 Accords available (colors may be limited however), plus the new 2008s will be in showrooms. At the very least, pictures will have been released in most automobile magazines and online.
At least then, you can decide whether the Accord (new or current design) is right for you or just eliminate it altogether from your list of cars. |
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| whizmo |
This article exactly sums up what the problem is with the TL. As I said earlier, big power and FWD just don't mix very well.
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/A...road-test/2685/
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The Acura TL is a great sedan that deftly combines modern styling, advanced engineering, cutting edge technology and an athletic grace, both in its driving demeanor and appearance. I was always kind of curious to find out what it would be like if it could turn everything up an aggressive notch or two to match my personality, which people tell me is nothing less than excitable, and often affectionately described as ‘on crack’. Well, now there’s a TL for people like me, the TL Type-Spaz. It’s always nice to be able to learn something about oneself through writing, but it’s no revelation to me that I can sometimes be a little overwhelming, and so, sadly is the TL Type-S.
I so wish this could be a glowing review, a stream of praise and aweabout how Acura has turned the excellent TL sedan into a white-cloaked land missile that can pluck a pigeon while parallel parking at 70 mph. Sadly, as much as the everyday TL was a fulfillment of all my expectations for a sporting luxury sedan, the Type-S was one of the biggest disappointments I have yet to experience in my brief career as an automotive journalist. It was appropriate that it should be painted white since someone should have thrown a bucket of whiteout over the marketing product pitch. Surely the engineers knew that the TL was just about as perfect as it could ever get on its current platform. It’s not that Acura can’t make a better car than the current TL, it’s just that I don’t think they can make a sports car from the current platform and configuration (Accord roots, front engine, front-wheel drive).
First of all, I want to make it perfectly clear that this car is plenty powerful; butthen again, so is the base TL and for the first time ever (and I hope the last) I’d have to say that it’s a car with too much power. The Type-S borrows the 3.5L V6 from Acura’s RL, but it is slightly de-tuned to 286 horsepower and 256 lb-ft of torque. It also gets a re-tuned suspension featuring stiffer springs and anti-roll bars for a firmer ride all around, and four-piston Brembo brakes locking down on 310 mm rotors up front. The firm ride was well measured and helped the Type-S keep a firm grip on the road, and though there's a fair bit of bounce on rough roads it's well dampened and the car regains composure quickly. On the go, the Type-S feels solid and well planted, but it's under acceleration and in tight corner work that it’s flaws begin to surface.
What does a front-wheel drive car do when there is so much power andit has to worry about steering, too? It torque steers, and the TL Type-S is a shining example of that demon. Surprisingly, after driving it I decided to look up some other reviews for confirmation, and while many experienced similar effects, I read quite a few reviews praising the TL Type-S for its ability to harness all 286 horsepower with only mild torque steer and seemingly complete mastery of heavy power out of corners. Maybe you can chalk it up to the very good, very grippy winter tires (high-end Bridgestone Blizzaks) wreaking havoc on the setup in the Type-S I drove, but I was getting lane-changing levels of torque steer taking off in second gear, and that without showing any particular rush.
Maybe on the car I was driving someone disconnectedthe limited slip differential that is meant to harness all that power and put it down to the pavement evenly, or maybe the other reviewers of whom I speak are blessed with forearms that Popeye would envy, but I felt like I was wrestling a skinny little python (the steering wheel diameter is wider than you’d expect in a sporty Acura and the grip is kinda’ skinny) any time I tried to get anywhere when embracing the ‘sporty’ nature of this sedan. The worst was one time when I approached a turn with some hard braking, a hard downshift, and tried to catch hell coming out of the corner hard on the throttle—that’s when the steering wheel felt like it buckled in my hands. For a second I thought each wheel was going to take a different route around the corner, but only a half-lane over and thankfully no traffic to object, I came out straight, but it’s quite possibly the worst and most dangerous incident of torque steer I’ve ever experienced. I am not alone in this opinion—a mechanic (and weekend rally-cross driver) who has also driven the Type-S also confirmed my misgivings.
How about understeer? Surprisingly, not as bad as the torque steer, but consideringthere was plenty of rain and a bit of snow, I caught understeer on almost any on-ramp or turn I wasn’t exceedingly careful with—slick roads tend to exaggerate this effect, so I expect it is a rare occurrence on dry roads in pleasant weather. I was careful the rest of the time not to test its limits, although once I even got a little lift-off, wag-the-dog oversteer on a particularly light-traffic night—nothing dramatic, just a little 5-degree wiggle quickly and easily corrected. So that takes care of my big complaints; I never thought I’d be complaining about too much power, especially not in a nasty TL that sounded ready to strip down some asphalt and transform into the meanest Decepticon ever, but you’d have to add the limited slip differential from a top-fuel dragster to straighten out the Type-S. Scary.
The rest of it was pretty much perfect for me:aggressive but tasteful styling with all the same grace of the regular TL plus an added measure of attitude, particularly in white, a perfect backdrop for the wheels. The rims especially are a piece of work, with delicate, square angled spokes in gunmetal grey; they’re easily my favourite OEM rims on the market.
Like the exterior, the interior is a combination of technical trim and high-tech goodies, including Type-S exclusive gauges and aluminum carbon-fiber-look trim, embossed Type-S logos, ambient lighting, as well as all the top-end features from the common TL: sat-nav, voice command, HandsFree Link for Bluetooth phones, climate control, Acura’s symphony-hall quality DVD-based 6-channel surround sound system, comfortable chairs and good ergonomics throughout the cabin.
While the chairs are comfortable, they’re not much of an upgrade overthe standard TL seats, with little additional bolstering necessary for the Type-S’s higher threshold, and only embossed Type-S logos to impress guests. In a way, they reveal the nature of the Type-S, which is a sportier version of a sporty sedan, but it’s no sports car, and the TL never will be on its current chassis. I’m hoping the next generation incorporates Acura’s stellar SH-AWD, which will surely launch a quantum leap forward for the TL and its Type-S franchise, but without all the antics.
What may confuse some is how much it looks and sounds like a full-bore sports car. It just screams barely disguised tuner special, and it sounds like a V8 on steroids right from start-up and then starts to roll thunder as the tach climbs, but the low-rev growl is so infectious that I likedkeeping it on a slow boil throughout my week. Of course, there’s no shortage of power, and unlike the front wheels and steering rack, the close-ratio six-speed handles it adeptly. Together with a stiff, even clutch, the shifter is satisfyingly mechanical in that once you slot it through the gate there’s a bit of metal-on-metal click as it settles in.
I, on the other hand, never quite settled in, never quite accepted that this is no sports car. I kept wanting more than it had to offer, kept wanting to gorge on all that power that the front wheels couldn’t quite digest. It was a violent struggle, and I felt defeated by the end of my week, disappointed in a car that couldn’t handle its own strength. In retrospect, maybe we were just too similar—like the wrong ends of a magnet pushing each other off the mark—two hyperactive, barely mature juveniles dressed up in some fine duds. |
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| sjlee |
Actually, this review is about the TL Type-S. From the sounds of the first part of the review, it sounds like the author really likes the TL.
I still agree that FWD isn't designed for hard driving, but for most people(who drive their cars at 1/2 to 3/4 of the capability of their car) they won't notice the difference.
Plus, what the heck is the author doing pushing the car with snow tires on? |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by sjlee
Actually, this review is about the TL Type-S. From the sounds of the first part of the review, it sounds like the author really likes the TL.
I still agree that FWD isn't designed for hard driving, but for most people(who drive their cars at 1/2 to 3/4 of the capability of their car) they won't notice the difference.
Plus, what the heck is the author doing pushing the car with snow tires on?
Agreed. If someone was getting a TL, I'd recommend the std. model with an automatic. There's really no point in buying the more powerful and sporty version if all it gets you is wheelspin and torque steer.
- Mark |
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