| jl_ss |
| To let Don Willems know where he stands in regard to his attempt to convert current Pilot owners over to the GMC Acadia: Would you trade your Honda/Toyota SUV for a first year design GMC Acadia? |
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| andyschneider |
So, it's funny how I've got a different answer today to this poll than I would have had a month ago. :D As folks have seen, we turned in the wife's lease for a Ford Freestyle, and after a week of ownership, I've got to say I'm pleasantly surprised! The jury is out in terms of long-term reliability, and given that I still have my '06 Pilot (and not getting rid of it for 2 more years), I'm still a honda-phile in terms of being sold on what they provide. But, at the end of the day, deciding to buy a different make of vehicle shouldn't be seen as a "benedict arnold" sort of situation. I mean, we WANTED to buy another Honda, but they just didn't have something that matched all of our criteria!! The new Acadia is a very nice vehicle, and in ways different than the Pilot, so if you found those features more attractive than the Honda, then why not?
andy |
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| TheEaglePilot |
quote:
Originally posted by andyschneider
if you found those features more attractive than the Honda, then why not?
Most people I know look beyond the feature set to the whole ownership experience. My time and money are too valuable to take a flier on a historically unreliable brand like GM.
Plus, as I've pointed out, the Acadia is much more expensive than the Pilot. So it's no contest to me.
Chris |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by andyschneider
So, it's funny how I've got a different answer today to this poll than I would have had a month ago. :D As folks have seen, we turned in the wife's lease for a Ford Freestyle, and after a week of ownership, I've got to say I'm pleasantly surprised! The jury is out in terms of long-term reliability, and given that I still have my '06 Pilot (and not getting rid of it for 2 more years), I'm still a honda-phile in terms of being sold on what they provide. But, at the end of the day, deciding to buy a different make of vehicle shouldn't be seen as a "benedict arnold" sort of situation. I mean, we WANTED to buy another Honda, but they just didn't have something that matched all of our criteria!! The new Acadia is a very nice vehicle, and in ways different than the Pilot, so if you found those features more attractive than the Honda, then why not?
andy
It was not meant to reflect a "Benedict Arnold" attitude. I have a GM truck that falls under the 3rd option - I took a gamble. I've found that the import buyer is usually driven by reliability and am curious as to whether anyone else is considering US manufactures other than the vocal few who always respond. If the poll comes back 95% negative, then Bill will know his posts are generally being ignored. I can see people trading up for features/style because the Pilot is a 5 year old design that will be redesigned next year. I'm sure it will look more current and have more features now that the MDX has more to differentiate it. And at the same time that new GM design comes with an unkown reliability and past GM reliablity has been spotty. I figure that the poll results would speak for themselves. |
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| crabeyes |
If $$ is a deciding factor, check with your insurance company. You may be suprised that a new Pilot's increase to your policy is much, much lower than the GM Lamda platorm cars. It has something to do with the Pilot's compiled statistics on repairs vs. no statistics.
I liked the features of some of the new crossovers but, the pocketbook spoke. |
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| rockman19762001 |
| My last general motors product broke me of the habit of buying another general motors product in the future. My Taurus Station Wagon broke me of the habit of buying another Ford. My dad sold me the Taurus Wagon, and they said parents look out for their children. |
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| Sportymonk |
| I checked the box for if they can prove their reliability etc like a Honda. Not too worried as GM will never get there. I traded an Impala POC for my Pilot.Wife would kill me if I traded it for anything GM. BTW, we traded her Malibu POS for a Civic. |
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| e2e |
It's going to be a long time before anyone convinces me to buy another GM product, much less one during the first year of production. I think these new GM converts will be singing a new tune in short order.
I don't even want to add up the money I've spent for repairs on my daughter's GrandAm, including some things that I think should have been the subject of recalls if GM stood behind their products (I love when my mechanic tells me he "sees a lot of these") -- faulty lower intake manifold gasket, broken springs, faulty ignition switches, defective turn signal stalk... the list goes on and on. My daughter's roommate has made a game of telling her what's going to break next, based on her experiences with her own GrandAm. If I could afford to sell this thing and get her something else, it would have been history by now.
GM's styling is definitely starting to turn around, but build quality doesn't come overnight. Maybe they're making progress in that area, too, but until they get some history under their belt, their track record speaks volumes.
My Pilot is now 2 years old, and hasn't been back to the dealer once since I bought it. Ditto on the Mazda3 I bought over a year ago. |
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| FHBrian |
| I would consider it if the price was more in line with the Pilot. And if I could convince the wife (Pilot is her car) but not likely since all she has ever driven is Hondas. I have had a couple Fords and currently drive a Expedition I bought new in 04 it has 105000 and hasn't given me any problems, 2 sets of brakes and have only had to put one set of tires on it. My work van is a 04 GMC Savanne and has almost 100000 miles and hasn't given me any problems either. I think all cars are pretty reliable up to 150000 miles or so and since I barely keep a car over 100000 miles I am not too worried about long term reliablilty. Oh Btw I also have a 89 Chevy 1500 truck with 4X4 with 244,000 miles on it with the original 5.7 (I think) V8. I can't kill it. |
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| tim.s |
Aren't the first two choices in the poll the same thing?
:2: |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by tim.s
Aren't the first two choices in the poll the same thing?
:2:
Could be........
I did notice that someone finally voted for "Bring it on, I can't wait to get rid of my Honda/Toyota" but did not comment. Musta been Don's vote....... |
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| ramirami |
quote:
Originally posted by tim.s
Aren't the first two choices in the poll the same thing?
:2:
this poll resembles the george bush poll :2: |
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| krygny |
| GM still owes you a car. |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
GM still owes you a car.
Worse, a Pontiac T1000! |
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| ncelk |
No way!
I am hereby avoiding first year vehicles by all manufacturers, including Toyota and Honda. |
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| GREEN EX-L |
I love individuals that claim they drive American vehicles with “NO PROBLEMS”.
I am a mechanic and I work for a local City motor pool and there is no such thing as a “reliable” American vehicle. I have owned many ford and GM products since 1990 and have had nothing but problems with these vehicles. I owned a 1991 Ford Escort that would stall all over town from about 20K that the Dealer could never fix. I had a 95 Cavalier that would leak coolant from the intake manifold that the dealer replaced that gasket so many times I lost track. I lemon lawed a 1999 Ford F-150 in 2001 due to an oil leak coming from the head gasket. I told the dealer from the first visit where the oil leak was coming from and they simply refused to correct the problem; so they bought it back. The straw that broke the camels back was a 1994 Explorer that I bought with 50K on the O.D. that was well maintained and in mint condition. I replaced everything in that SUV at least ones or twice!!! I replaced the transmission twice, radiator twice, universal joints once, heater core twice, fuel pump once, ABS assembly, master cylinder!!! The list goes on and on.
My boss just bought a new 2006 Chevy Silverado 4X4 about six months ago and the the C.V. joints are already leaking!! Another friend of mine bought a 2005 Chevy Silverado and when the truck turned 6,000 miles he walked out of the supermarket and found a puddle of coolant on the ground. He towed the P.O.S. to the dealer and the water pump was leaking!!! There is no such thing as a 100,000 mile American vehicle with “No Problems” I know from personal experience and many disappointing years of American car ownership. I would love to buy an American vehicle but I need a vehicle to take me to work to make money not sit at the dealer collecting dust.
I would not drive any GM, Ford or Chrysler product, unless I won it and then I would drive it until my first trip to the dealer then I would sell it! |
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| jdeanski |
| I got my new Consumers Report today that tested the Saturn Outlook......they loved it.....best GM product in years. First in their ranking was the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, second the HONDA PILOT, and only one point behind was the Saturn Outlook. When compared as a LARGE SUV the Outlook finished second to the Mercedes GL450. They did point out that a second generation Highlander is due out this summer and the new Pilot early in 2008. |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by jdeanski
I got my new Consumers Report today that tested the Saturn Outlook......they loved it.....best GM product in years. First in their ranking was the Toyota Highlander Hybrid, second the HONDA PILOT, and only one point behind was the Saturn Outlook. When compared as a LARGE SUV the Outlook finished second to the Mercedes GL450. They did point out that a second generation Highlander is due out this summer and the new Pilot early in 2008.
But did it earn a Recommended rating? I would guess not because it is too early for CR to judge long term reliability........ |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
But did it earn a Recommended rating? I would guess not because it is too early for CR to judge long term reliability........
GM now include a 100k miles warranty a good selling point. |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
GM now include a 100k miles warranty a good selling point.
It's good from a monetary standpoint, but not if you have to take the time from your busy day to bring it to the dealer for repairs a number of times. At 26K, my Silverado has already had a few major repairs. |
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| GREEN EX-L |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
GM now include a 100k miles warranty a good selling point.
They give you a 100K warranty and you are going to use it! I wouldn’t doubt that this warranty program that GM has doesn’t bankrupt them.
I would make sure that it includes a loaner vehicle because it gets really expensive to rent a vehicle to go to work; while the GM technicians try to figure out what is wrong with your vehicle. Then you have to wait for the parts to show up that usually takes about three weeks+++.
I sent a Ford Taurus to a local Ford dealer to have a catalytic converter replaced under warranty and it took four (4) months for the part to show up!!! They claimed that it was on “back order”. NICE!!!!! |
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| e2e |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
GM now include a 100k miles warranty a good selling point.
It's a marketing ploy. GM is merely copying the same strategy Hyundai used a few years ago....trying to convince consumers that "if the warranty is this long, it must be a good vehicle."
The only difference is Hyundai quality is actually improving over time, while GM lost ground as reported in the latest JD Powers survey. Don was waving the flag about JD Powers a few weeks ago -- no word from him since the latest report came out.
These guys turn with whatever direction the wind is blowing -- he was also earlier bashing Consumer Reports as being anti-GM. Now he'll probably do an about-face and come here touting the recent CR article. And yes, despite the favorable evaluation, CR did say it's too early to make any judgments about the long-term reliability of the new GM crossovers. |
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| rocky |
| Since JD Power was the first 90 days of ownership, guess long term is 91. |
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| millarduck |
| The GMC is too expensive. It is a nice looking SUV as the Saturn version. But, having replaced a transmission on an '02 Odyssey w/ 40K and now the interior of my '05 pilot going to hell, I can't say Honda is any better in quality than GM. My "leather seats" are cracking at the VINYL bolster (32K miles). This is a common problem noted in these forums. What about the rear end "clunking" problems on this board? The plastic on my rear door sill is popping out. I am on my 2nd radio. Sorry, but you are believing a "reputation" on superior quality. Look at your seat belt and the scratches on the pillar it causes, that's better than GM designs? WRONG!! I am disappointed with the "quality" of my Pilot. The interior materials are not well thought out in how they interact with daily use of the vehicle. Who put thin cheap vinyl on a stress point on leather seats? With a 100K power-train warranty, I will consider a GM product. I know from experience their interior materials will hold up. |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
Sorry, but you are believing a "reputation" on superior quality.
Actually not. We believe actual CR reliability survey results from owners that indicate that even though the Pilot may have some problems, they are relatively few compared to most other makes, especially US manufacturers. The following CR results show a long term reliability comparison of a Pilot and a GM model that has been around for more than a year. The GM doesn't age all that gracefully..... |
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| GreenMachine |
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
[BBut, having replaced a transmission on an '02 Odyssey w/ 40K and now the interior of my '05 pilot going to hell, I can't say Honda is any better in quality than GM. [/B]
Honda did have problems with the trannys back then, and I think they extended the warranties on those affected years. Good luck with that on GM. If they extended the warranties on their products with major failures, they'd be out of business.
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
My "leather seats" are cracking at the VINYL bolster (32K miles). This is a common problem noted in these forums.
Should have gotten cloth. :D The cloth in our 2001 CR-V looks new as does our Pilot at 17K miles.
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
What about the rear end "clunking" problems on this board?
What clunking problem? We haven't discussed that in quite a while so that would lead me to believe whatever it was, it's gone.
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
The plastic on my rear door sill is popping out.
Pop it back in!
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
I am on my 2nd radio.
Bad luck?
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
Look at your seat belt and the scratches on the pillar it causes, that's better than GM designs?
I agree here. They need to address this on the redesign. I have a handful of nicks, but I don't really care.
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
I am disappointed with the "quality" of my Pilot.
Then go drive your BMW. The interior quality is much higher than the Pilot, but that can't be said about its reliability. :rolleyes: |
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| GREEN EX-L |
I would like to respond to millarduck by suggesting and highly recommending buying a GM vehicle. I would love to hear back from him after six (6) months of ownership to see how his wonderful new GM product transformed from a new vehicle into a huge P.O.S.
If you are experiencing all these problems on a well engineered vehicle imagine what problems you are going to encounter with a poorly engineered vehicle.
If you like I can tell you about the 1999 F-150 that I lemon lawed!!
Honda and Toyota products are not perfect, I worked as a mechanic for an Acura dealer for ten years and made a very good living. When I worked their I thought that Acura’s were P.O.S. because I saw the worst of the worst. But after working with American brand (Ford, Chrysler and GM) vehicles for the last seven years I can say that my experiences with the Acura products are nothing in comparison with the problems that I have encounter with American brand vehicles. There is no factory support with American vehicles and nobody cares they just want to push the new cars out the door. Period!
Bottom line when you purchase an American brand vehicle you are purchasing an inferior product; and that is my personal opinion based on my years in the business and personal ownership.
:3: |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by jl_ss
The GM doesn't age all that gracefully.....
I think GM has changed their thinking and is actually looking at dependability. |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by GREEN EX-L
Bottom line when you purchase an American brand vehicle you are purchasing an inferior product; and that is my personal opinion based on my years in the business and personal ownership.
:3:
But as Dylan sang "the times they are a changing" |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jdeanski
But as Dylan sang "the times they are a changing"
The only thing that changed from my POS '81 Chevette to my POS '96 Blazer was that the Blazer didn't start falling apart until after 90 days.
Let's hope that the change from '96 to '07 is more significant.
A good buddy of mine just bought a Ford Edge at Koons Ford in Rockville, MD. The comment I remember from him was how empty the Ford showroom was, and how customers had to take a number at the Koons Toyota showroom on a recent Sunday afternoon. |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
Let's hope that the change from '96 to '07 is more significant.
WE must hope so
quote:
Originally posted by jay
A good buddy of mine just bought a Ford Edge at Koons Ford in Rockville, MD. The comment I remember from him was how empty the Ford showroom was, and how customers had to take a number at the Koons Toyota showroom on a recent Sunday afternoon.
A friend of mine is a Ford salesman, and his son works at the Toyota dealership and confirms your statement. |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by jdeanski
I think GM has changed their thinking and is actually looking at dependability.
That's great! We'll see what the CR Reliability chart looks like in 5 years and if it's filled with little red dots, they'll be serious competition. Based on the multiple serious issues I've had with only 26K miles on my 2004 Silverado, they were not thinking dependability in 2004......... |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
The only thing that changed from my POS '81 Chevette to my POS '96 Blazer was that the Blazer didn't start falling apart until after 90 days.
Let's hope that the change from '96 to '07 is more significant.
A good buddy of mine just bought a Ford Edge at Koons Ford in Rockville, MD. The comment I remember from him was how empty the Ford showroom was, and how customers had to take a number at the Koons Toyota showroom on a recent Sunday afternoon.
Straight extrapolation of your data indicates that the 2007 GM should be improved enough to not start falling apart until after 156 days.........:D |
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| andyschneider |
quote:
Originally posted by GREEN EX-L
Bottom line when you purchase an American brand vehicle you are purchasing an inferior product; and that is my personal opinion based on my years in the business and personal ownership.
:3: [/B]
As is true with anything - choosing dealers, choosing a house, choosing your mate :D - there are good things and bad things about each and every choice. Is every Honda or Toyota or Nissan a car that is super-reliable and perfect? Nope. Is every Ford or GM or Chrysler a piece of cr*p? Nope. You have to be sure about what you pick and do your homework.
My litmus test over the years has shown results all over the map. In my 30+ years of owning cars:
81 Mercury Lynx - POS
85 Olds Cutlass Cierra - great
86 Volvo 740 Wagon - POS (within 2 months)
86 Chevy Cavalier Wagon - great
90 Acura Integra - POS
91 Acura INtegra - Great
93 Acura Legend - lemon law buyback
96 Acura RL - great
01 Chevy Tahoe - excellent!
03 Pontiac Aztek - great till 36,003 miles then POS
05 Honda Accord - great except brakes, which were POS
04 Honda Pilot - OK
06 Honda PIlot - great
So, there is no golden manufacturer. Our current american endeavor, the Ford Freestyle AWD has had the best first 3 months of ownership, even better than the Pilot. Will it hold up? Hard to tell. And I do know that american mfgs have their share of stinkers. But there are some decent vehicles there, so a blanket "don't buy domestic manufacturer" isn't a valid statement....
andy |
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| millarduck |
I actually had a 2003 Ford Taurus as a company car. With 80,000 miles, I changed oil, tires, air filters, and front brakes (only once at 60K). So I have driven an American car. It was problem free those 80K miles, so by everybody's definition it should be a superior product than my Pilot or Odyssey, therefore Ford is better than Honda. Not likely, but if I solely based my car buying on perception, then I would buy an Hyundai which matches or surpasses Honda now in customer satisfaction and quality ratings since 2004. My point was that Japanese manufacturers get the benefit of the doubt, "my car is the exception". There is no excuse for leather seats to split on the side en masse. If it was Ford or GM there would be black dots galore in Consumer Reports. The failures of automatic transmissions in 2000-2002 Odysseys and Acura TLs was not well publicized. In my case Honda did not step up with 42,000 miles because the failure was not due to the 2nd gear problem which prompted the recall and extended warranty. I got stuck with that bill :3: I am disappointed in the way Honda has gone downhill, we have owned many Hondas. Perhaps it's because they are now made in North America.
So if I get chastised for suggesting I could consider the new GM product, what is wrong with that? Like many of you, I base my buying decision on personal experience with a product. My last two Honda experiences do not live up to the reputation that Honda has. Godforbid that Honda gets some criticism. Finally, as an American, I hope GM and Ford can pull it out. |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
I actually had a 2003 Ford Taurus as a company car. With 80,000 miles, I changed oil, tires, air filters, and front brakes (only once at 60K). So I have driven an American car. It was problem free those 80K miles, so by everybody's definition it should be a superior product than my Pilot or Odyssey, therefore Ford is better than Honda. Not likely, but if I solely based my car buying on perception, then I would buy an Hyundai which matches or surpasses Honda now in customer satisfaction and quality ratings since 2004. My point was that Japanese manufacturers get the benefit of the doubt, "my car is the exception". There is no excuse for leather seats to split on the side en masse. If it was Ford or GM there would be black dots galore in Consumer Reports. The failures of automatic transmissions in 2000-2002 Odysseys and Acura TLs was not well publicized. In my case Honda did not step up with 42,000 miles because the failure was not due to the 2nd gear problem which prompted the recall and extended warranty. I got stuck with that bill :3: I am disappointed in the way Honda has gone downhill, we have owned many Hondas. Perhaps it's because they are now made in North America.
So if I get chastised for suggesting I could consider the new GM product, what is wrong with that? Like many of you, I base my buying decision on personal experience with a product. My last two Honda experiences do not live up to the reputation that Honda has. Godforbid that Honda gets some criticism. Finally, as an American, I hope GM and Ford can pull it out.
Your Ford example is only one data point out of many. Once you sum those data points, you find the average reliability you can expect from owning a Taurus. Fortunately, CR does that for us.
WHile Hyundai has made great strides in quality it's resale value does not reflect that yet. It will take 5 or so years for GM to prove it is now designing vehicles with good long term reliability and then it will take at least another 5 for resale value to catch up. It's tough to get out of a vehicle that you are having problems with when it has no trade value.
Everybody has their own experiences. You are free to buy whatever you want. Most of us are buying Hondas and Toyotas due to multiple bad experiences with US manufacturers vehicles. My Silverado at 26K needed to have the front differential bearings and gears replaced - and it's not really used as a truck and is hardly ever in 4wd. Chevy picked it up because I was in warranty. The same thing happened to a friends Silverado just out of warranty and Chevy would not pay for it.
Honda/Acura does get black dots for it's tranny problems. Check out the CR reliablity ratings for those models during their respective years of tranny problems. The Pilot never had the large number of failures that the other models had, so the Pilot reliability ratings reflect that. The tranny failures were well publicized, however, Honda extended the warranties and paid for the replacements. It would have been more publicized with a US manufacturer because they would have likely refused to pay for replacements and extend warranties until it was widley publicized and classs action suits were brought. Even though Honda went through a period of tranny problems and Toyota went through a period of sludged engines, both have emerged with their reputations intact and their resale values still at the top of the charts. |
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| GreenMachine |
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
In my case Honda did not step up with 42,000 miles because the failure was not due to the 2nd gear problem which prompted the recall and extended warranty. I got stuck with that bill :3:
If you had put up a good fight, you might have gotten Honda to pay for some of the bill as a goodwill gesture since you were only 6,000 miles out of warranty.
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
So if I get chastised for suggesting I could consider the new GM product, what is wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with suggesting it, just don't be surprised with the response you get on a Honda website.
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
Like many of you, I base my buying decision on personal experience with a product. My last two Honda experiences do not live up to the reputation that Honda has. Godforbid that Honda gets some criticism.
Honda gets criticized all the time, when it's warranted. Maybe you should go buy a GM product, and then you might see how much better you had it with Honda.
quote:
Originally posted by millarduck
Finally, as an American, I hope GM and Ford can pull it out.
I hope so too. I really like the looks of that G8 and Camaro. :cool: Might be good weekend cars. |
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| GREEN EX-L |
This is why I bought a Pilot:
Even if this vehicle turns out to be the biggest P.O.S. I have ever purchased, it will still be the one of the best vehicles I could have ever purchase from a financial point of view. Lets say for argument sake that Honda vehicles “Are not all that” and in reality are just average. The bottom line is perception of quality and resale value.
For example:
Lets take the Ford Taurus above that ran 80,000 trouble free miles, KBB.com trade in value shows that a 2003 Ford Taurus SES V6 24V 3.0 with 80K on the clock (Top of the line) in Excellent condition is worth $5,525 now lets take a 2003 Honda Accord EX 4 door 4 cylinder with 80K on the clock (Not the top of the line V6 3.0) in Excellent condition is worth $9,775. If you choose the V6 3.0 with 80K on the clock this vehicle is worth $10,500 in trade!!!! Now that’s bang for the buck!!! I would rather drive a Honda or Toyota P.O.S. than a “reliable” American brand vehicle and keep more of my hard earned money in my pocket!!!!
Buy the way the Taurus SES V6 MSRP new was approximately $23,170 new and the 2003 Honda Accord EX 4 cylinder was approximately $24,900 new as per my quick google research.
Am I right or am I wrong?
:confused: |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by GREEN EX-L
This is why I bought a Pilot:
Even if this vehicle turns out to be the biggest P.O.S. I have ever purchased, it will still be the one of the best vehicles I could have ever purchase from a financial point of view. Lets say for argument sake that Honda vehicles “Are not all that” and in reality are just average. The bottom line is perception of quality and resale value.
For example:
Lets take the Ford Taurus above that ran 80,000 trouble free miles, KBB.com trade in value shows that a 2003 Ford Taurus SES V6 24V 3.0 with 80K on the clock (Top of the line) in Excellent condition is worth $5,525 now lets take a 2003 Honda Accord EX 4 door 4 cylinder with 80K on the clock (Not the top of the line V6 3.0) in Excellent condition is worth $9,775. If you choose the V6 3.0 with 80K on the clock this vehicle is worth $10,500 in trade!!!! Now that’s bang for the buck!!! I would rather drive a Honda or Toyota P.O.S. than a “reliable” American brand vehicle and keep more of my hard earned money in my pocket!!!!
Buy the way the Taurus SES V6 MSRP new was approximately $23,170 new and the 2003 Honda Accord EX 4 cylinder was approximately $24,900 new as per my quick google research.
Am I right or am I wrong?
:confused:
I think your 2003 Taurus trade value is high. Our local dealer sells 1 year old Executive (Ford employee driven) Taurus/Sables for $9,999.00 every year. I was in a rental Taurus today for a business trip and noticed that the gap between the trunk and the fender was 1/2" on one side and rubbing on the other............ |
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| BigDozer66 |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
The only thing that changed from my POS '81 Chevette to my POS '96 Blazer was that the Blazer didn't start falling apart until after 90 days.
Let's hope that the change from '96 to '07 is more significant.
A good buddy of mine just bought a Ford Edge at Koons Ford in Rockville, MD. The comment I remember from him was how empty the Ford showroom was, and how customers had to take a number at the Koons Toyota showroom on a recent Sunday afternoon.
Our local Toyota dealer makes you take a number also but it isn't because they are busy. It is because they tend to ignore customers and think they will put up with it because they sell Toyota!:rolleyes:
The Acadia has some nice features and it was the last of the 2 vehicles we looked at and we decided the Pilot was the overall better vehicle.:D
BigDozer66 |
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| Ogre |
quote:
Originally posted by GreenMachine
Honda did have problems with the trannys back then, and I think they extended the warranties on those affected years. Good luck with that on GM. If they extended the warranties on their products with major failures, they'd be out of business.
I am a extremely satisfied GM customer, so I will jump into this discussion. I own a GMC diesel, and there is a history of a certain mechanical deficiency with said truck (much like the tranny problems with the Hondas apperantly). The injectors have been know to go bad on this particular motor (years 01-03). The statement quoted above is false, GM has stepped up to the plate and extended the warranty on this particular problem out 7years, and 200k mi. So far I have not had any problems with my injectors (knock on wood), but at least I have the peace of mind to know that it will be taken care of.
Another point to this message is the fact that going into one of these forums is extrmely subjective. I assumed I would get domestic bashing in this forum, just as I get import bashing on my GM diesel forum. It's like I tell the folks over there. I don't base any loyalties or allegance to any manufactuer until they earn my continued business. GM has done so over the years for me, and Honda has for my wife over the years.
I would gladly have purchased a new Saturn Outlook, unfortunatley, they cost nearly twice as much new as my wifes (new to her) 04 pilot did. All in all the Outlook, Acadia, Enclave are excellent vehicles, between their style, utility, and innovation. (Speaking of innovation, Why is Honda still using 4 speed transmissions?, heck my truck even has a 5 spd auto and the new Outlooks are 6 speed autos.):) |
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| BigDozer66 |
quote:
Originally posted by Ogre
I would gladly have purchased a new Saturn Outlook, unfortunatley, they cost nearly twice as much new as my wifes (new to her) 04 pilot did. All in all the Outlook, Acadia, Enclave are excellent vehicles, between their style, utility, and innovation. (Speaking of innovation, Why is Honda still using 4 speed transmissions?, heck my truck even has a 5 spd auto and the new Outlooks are 6 speed autos.):)
I agree with a lot of the points you have mentioned. I have always been a Ford man but I would not even consider a Ford now because of Corporate decisions.:(
My wife and I liked the Acadia but the dealer would not come off sticker price so we told him we would not buy one.
They have a lot of innovations in them that I liked and if the reliability is there it will be a good vehicle for GM.
Hopefully GM will get the ship righted and will continue to thrive in the US for many decades to come.
Our '07 Pilot has a 5 speed transmission in it as did our Accord.:4:
BigDozer66 |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by Ogre
Another point to this message is the fact that going into one of these forums is extrmely subjective. I assumed I would get domestic bashing in this forum, just as I get import bashing on my GM diesel forum. It's like I tell the folks over there. I don't base any loyalties or allegance to any manufactuer until they earn my continued business. GM has done so over the years for me, and Honda has for my wife over the years.
You won't get bashed too much here. This thread was started in response to a GM employee who persisted in telling us that all Pilot owners are trading their Pilots in for Acadias and that the long term reliability would be just as good, based on internal data that showed GM quality levels were up. Most import buyers buy them because of reliability and require a proven track record of many years of reliability. The Acadia/Outlook may be a great vehicle but it still has a good 4 or 5 years to prove it's long term reliabilty. GM did take the right step forwarding in standing behind their products by upping the warranty to 100K miles, but a lot of us keep our vehicles longer than 100k and it's proven that imports last well over 100K without problems. At 25K my Silverado 1500 CC has had several problems including failed front differential gears/bearings - and it sees very little use as a truck. That's not promising for long term ownership. Another issue with the GM vehicles that goes along with their less than stellar reliability ratings is poor resale value. As soon as GM shows that they have improved their long term reliability and that improvement is reflected in re-sale values, they'll get a lot of the import customers back. |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by Ogre
I am a extremely satisfied GM customer, so I will jump into this discussion. I own a GMC diesel, and there is a history of a certain mechanical deficiency with said truck (much like the tranny problems with the Hondas apperantly). The injectors have been know to go bad on this particular motor (years 01-03). The statement quoted above is false, GM has stepped up to the plate and extended the warranty on this particular problem out 7years, and 200k mi. So far I have not had any problems with my injectors (knock on wood), but at least I have the peace of mind to know that it will be taken care of.
I have a problem with my Silverado's intermediate steering shaft. It is a bad design and has to be regreased every 10K so that it does not feel like the steering wheel is loose. It is a very common problem with that model over several years and there have been several redesigns to address the issue. Unfortunatley, none of the redesigns have fixed the problem. I have three friends with the same issue. GM's stance is that they will pay for the regreasing ($100 every time) until you are out of warranty. After warranty they have been refusing to pay - which means $100 every 10K miles. So they don't stand behind everything....... |
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| GreenMachine |
quote:
Originally posted by Ogre
I am a extremely satisfied GM customer, so I will jump into this discussion. I own a GMC diesel, and there is a history of a certain mechanical deficiency with said truck (much like the tranny problems with the Hondas apperantly). The injectors have been know to go bad on this particular motor (years 01-03). The statement quoted above is false, GM has stepped up to the plate and extended the warranty on this particular problem out 7years, and 200k mi.
Another point to this message is the fact that going into one of these forums is extrmely subjective. I assumed I would get domestic bashing in this forum, just as I get import bashing on my GM diesel forum. It's like I tell the folks over there. I don't base any loyalties or allegance to any manufactuer until they earn my continued business. GM has done so over the years for me, and Honda has for my wife over the years.
I would gladly have purchased a new Saturn Outlook, unfortunatley, they cost nearly twice as much new as my wifes (new to her) 04 pilot did. All in all the Outlook, Acadia, Enclave are excellent vehicles, between their style, utility, and innovation. (Speaking of innovation, Why is Honda still using 4 speed transmissions?, heck my truck even has a 5 spd auto and the new Outlooks are 6 speed autos.):)
I am happy for you that GM is standing behind their product, however, your problem is just one of MANY they have with their cars and trucks. Warrantying all those repairs just might put them out of business considering their present financial state. I was glad to read they made a decent profit this quarter, and I wish them well. I would not mind at all buying a GM once the reliability has been addressed over a number of years. Your statement about the Acadia, which I think is a very nice looking SUV, does not address long term ownership. Having style, utility, and innovation does not mean anything to me if the reliability is below average. I guess we'll just have to see.
I imagine, like most manufacturers, that since you have a heavy duty truck they want you coming back to GM to get another one, not Ford or Dodge. Figure in the service costs the dealers get along with the fact big trucks are their bread and butter, and you can see why they might do a little more to help than say the person with the Cobalt or Sunfire.
As for transmissions, your wife's Pilot has a 5 speed auto like was mentioned before. It has had a 5 speed since its first year. I am trying to think about any Honda that still has a 4 speed auto. I can't think of any. Maybe someone else here can help us out. Yeah, no 6 speed yet, but you can be sure one is in the pipeline.
Oh, you really should be talking about manufacturers still using 4 speed autos since GM is STILL using them in their brand new line of full size pickups and SUV's. I believe the Escalade and the Denali are the only versions that get a 6 speed auto. The Saturn Aura hybrid that is supposed to be built for great fuel economy still has a 4 speed auto. :rolleyes:
BTW, I like that new G8 with the 6.0L or maybe that new Camaro. So I do hope that GM continues to improve. You can thank Toyota and Honda for that. Gotta love competition. |
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| Ogre |
quote:
Originally posted by GreenMachine
I am happy for you that GM is standing behind their product, however, your problem is just one of MANY they have with their cars and trucks. Warrantying all those repairs just might put them out of business considering their present financial state. I was glad to read they made a decent profit this quarter, and I wish them well. I would not mind at all buying a GM once the reliability has been addressed over a number of years. Your statement about the Acadia, which I think is a very nice looking SUV, does not address long term ownership. Having style, utility, and innovation does not mean anything to me if the reliability is below average. I guess we'll just have to see.
I imagine, like most manufacturers, that since you have a heavy duty truck they want you coming back to GM to get another one, not Ford or Dodge. Figure in the service costs the dealers get along with the fact big trucks are their bread and butter, and you can see why they might do a little more to help than say the person with the Cobalt or Sunfire.
As for transmissions, your wife's Pilot has a 5 speed auto like was mentioned before. It has had a 5 speed since its first year. I am trying to think about any Honda that still has a 4 speed auto. I can't think of any. Maybe someone else here can help us out. Yeah, no 6 speed yet, but you can be sure one is in the pipeline.
Oh, you really should be talking about manufacturers still using 4 speed autos since GM is STILL using them in their brand new line of full size pickups and SUV's. I believe the Escalade and the Denali are the only versions that get a 6 speed auto. The Saturn Aura hybrid that is supposed to be built for great fuel economy still has a 4 speed auto. :rolleyes:
BTW, I like that new G8 with the 6.0L or maybe that new Camaro. So I do hope that GM continues to improve. You can thank Toyota and Honda for that. Gotta love competition.
My bad, on the Honda tranny, however if we are comparing apples to apples, like I said the Acadia.. have 6 speeds BTW, all GM HD trucks (equipped with Allison after 06' IIRC) also are 6 speed. I am hoping for the best on the reliability on the Acadia etc. as well. At least they went in the right direction, and by that I mean the opposite of their Equinox and Pontiac Torrents. Those my friend are about the cheapest, crappiest crossovers that we looked at.
Someone mentioned poor resale, If you think resale on a GM is bad, you would really pitty those poor souls who buy Dodge trucks. |
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| jl_ss |
quote:
Originally posted by Ogre
Someone mentioned poor resale, If you think resale on a GM is bad, you would really pitty those poor souls who buy Dodge trucks.
The resale comment was in reference to imports versus US manufacturers. GM versus Dodge is just comparing levels of bad. You can wind up with a troublesome Honda/Toyota and it doesn't hurt the wallet too much to get out of it. It hurts a whole lot to get out of a bad GM/Ford/Chrylser. |
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| chmp3 |
OK, I will add my 2cents here.
I have an 05 EX-L I got from my step mom and I have a lot of respect for Honda,in fact have an S2000 as well (Probably the best car I have ever owened). The Pilot is awesome and it would definitly take a lot to get me away from it, especially after I just got it accessorized the way I like it (I've only had it 2 months). I also have a pathfinder SE, that my wife drives. I have to say the Pathfinder is a really great car too. And here's the kicker...We rented an Acadia for 9 days in Minnesota this summer, and I have to say it was an excellent vehicle as well, just in terms of driving experience and cargo and passenger capacity.
I highly doubt however that any GMC will EVER last as long or be as maintenance free as a HONDA, so would I ever trade...Probably not.
But the Acadia is pretty kool, for an american product. If they made a hybrid version which got 30 MPG and had a 120K warrante on it I'd be more likely to consider it the next time. Hondas Are The BEST. |
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| driver8 |
quote:
Originally posted by andyschneider
[B] My litmus test over the years has shown results all over the map. In my 30+ years of owning cars:
81 Mercury Lynx - POS
85 Olds Cutlass Cierra - great
86 Volvo 740 Wagon - POS (within 2 months)
86 Chevy Cavalier Wagon - great
90 Acura Integra - POS
91 Acura INtegra - Great
93 Acura Legend - lemon law buyback
96 Acura RL - great
01 Chevy Tahoe - excellent!
03 Pontiac Aztek - great till 36,003 miles then POS
05 Honda Accord - great except brakes, which were POS
04 Honda Pilot - OK
06 Honda PIlot - great
So, there is no golden manufacturer. /B]
no golden? I see you have never owned a Toyota. I've owned three toyotas and three honda (as well as two fords, two GM's and a mitsubishi). Our current Toyota, a 94 Rav4 has 1720,000 miles, mostly city, my wife learned to drive a 5 speed on it and I have done the following. Change tires every 60k or so, change front brakes every 40k or so, rotors for the firs time at 160k, changed oil every 12k and filer every 24k, changed trans oil once, changed wiper blades twice, changed first an only bulb to fail (upper brakelight) at 150k miles, changed battery at 120,000 miles, bought new floor mats last year. Changed coolant fluid at 120k. changed plugs, cap, air filter at 100,000 k. one egr
I did that all myself.
Nothing else!
original water pump, original timing belt (!), original clutch(!)
my 04 pilot's is a well made vehicle but door locks died after 50k the front windshield broke twice (both oem!), the rear ac failed.
As far as GM...sorry .. no way! When I bought my pilot there was a huge, i mean HUGE give away on envoy/trailblazer. On top of the deep discounts I had $2400 additional I could have gotten off via my gm card points. we looked at those vehicles. parts were falling off in the lots! There main advertisement was how foot ball players could fit in the third row.
When driving on the highway you could see a trailblazer or envoy every few seconds. where did they go? I'll tell you, GM builds three year cars. If you are going to die in three years and have heirs you hate, buy a GM, otherwise don't.
check the stats. toyota/lex is the top of the major bradns for dependability. Honda/accura is good but it is second. GM and ford have a deep rooted corporate culture that places dependability at the bottom. their vehicles cost twice as much over the long term as your out the door price |
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| donx |
| I have driven an 08 Acadia as replacement for my Pilot for almost 10 days when it is still in the body shop after a sideswipe accident. I like the look, size and ride of Acadia, but I would still buy Pilot if I have option to choose. To me, Pilot is more fun to drive even as an SUV, and I don't even want to mention quality issue since there is no comparison(I have never sent my Pilot to dealer once except regular maintenance for 2 years ownership, but the brand new Acadia I am driving now already has a couple of issues I noticed). Anyway Acadia is a great SUV, I love driving it as a rental ;), but to own it? no! |
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| bengelking |
| Pay $10,000 more for a GM product that will be worth $10,000 less than a Pilot in 5 years? Seriously? I'll admit that The Acadia is a sharp looking vehicle inside and out, but GM needs to establish a proven track record before I even consider going back. By that time, my '03 Pilot will be on it's second 100,000 miles (just flipped 102,000 last week). |
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