| N_Jay |
This was posted on another forum, and I asked the person if they would mind if I posted it here.
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I have had the pleasure to become friends with a 21 year old man who served time in iraq from age 18 to 19 in the US army. I have spoken to him numerous times about his experiences there. I will summarize here. I haven't seen anything like this posted here on turf and since we always have debates about the iraq war perhaps this is something that is worth posting:
On his 18th birthday he signed up for the army. after 9-11 he was infuriated that we were victims and he wanted to do something about it. he was hurried through basic training, and was assigned to drive trucks. because of the bad weather at his base and the speeded up deplyments he wasn't actually ever in the truck he was supposed to drive in iraq. (the trucks are huge. the tires are as tall as a man he said)
He left a pregnant wife (18 at the time as well) and left for Iraq. after he got situated in his camp there he went to his commanding officer. they asked him if he was ready to drive in a convoy. he told them he never drove the truck in training but "hell yeah" he was ready. The commander told him you leave tomorrow. the convoy was 20 or so gigantic trucks, lead and followed by humvees. they blasted rap music as they stormed through the towns and roads. they were told to NEVER stop. not for anything. they were supposed to run over anyone in their way. the enemy were using children to stop the convoys. and when the trucks stopped they were fired upon. The soldiers refused to run over children. It was because of this that the humvee in front of his truck was blasted to pieces by a rocket. the leader of his (squad?) was in that hummer. it happened in a second. after the gun fight (not really as the enemy all ran) they discovered no survivors in the humvee. welcome to iraq. first mission. it took them 3 days to get to their destination. at night they rolled into a big circle of trucks. they slept on top of the trucks in the open because it was so hot.
back at base the highlight of their stay was when a sandwich store chain, called "Blimpies," had sent over a miniature sandwich store in a trailer. It was the hit of the base. They had a lot of sex between the male and female soldiers. death makes you want to screw I guess. As an aside... he said there were a lot of HOT female soldiers. go figure... still chasing ass even in war. life was basically boredom with blips of absolute fear when you were on a mission.
One night when he was on guard duty at the base walls. he noticed a car drive close and someone get out. he was using night vision so the intruder couldn't see him watching. he saw what looked like a grenade shooter or weapon the guy was trying to setup. he radios his leader and asks for directions. he was told to shoot. He said his adrenaline went thru the roof but he was trained to this so he was ready. he shot the guy twice in the leg and then they went out and retrieved the enemy for medical attention. he had to fill out paper work as to the number of bullets he discharged and the circumstances of the shooting. (I was pretty shocked that they did that) He got used to life in iraq. all kids running around with machine guns. The soldiers uniformly disagreed with a lot of the decisions made by the military leaders because it put them in extra danger. But they were all united in their belief that they were doing something right and was protecting the USA.
He was rotated back to the USA after a year. he saw his daughter for the first time. the army wasn't able for whatever reason to get his family on base for his stay in the US and he was pissed. so he went awol to his family. he was out for 6 months and then returned to his unit. he was put in the brig for 6 months. then discharged dishonorably.
I met him and his friend recently and his friend had just returned from iraq. his friend was hilarous, and he called all iraqis "hajis," and said it was still ****ed up over there.
funny thing is even after my friend was put in the brig he says he would still go back to iraq and fight for this country if they asked him. Even though he thinks the war should end it doesn't change the fact that he would without hesitation go back and fight if asked.
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| malmon |
Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, reports from our own goverment says so. Even the big DICK would twist his own words,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWdq7hg4dLU
This young man should have been in Afghanistan looking for the real mastermind, Bin Laden. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, reports from our own goverment says so. Even the big DICK would twist his own words,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWdq7hg4dLU
This young man should have been in Afghanistan looking for the real mastermind, Bin Laden.
Thank you for your insight.
I posted it to provide some perspective from someone who HAS BEEN THERE.
Please feel free to comment when you get back.:rolleyes: |
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| scuba steve |
i have no dog in this fight. but i'm going to relay a tale of two of my friends.
i do have two good friends in the military. both are career soldiers. one a gunnery sergeant in the USMC, the other a lt.col in the USAF. we all met through a car club.
the gunny has done three (think about it) tours. he is with the first expeditionary force, intelligence. he basically is on the ground gathering intelligence, kicking in doors, training iraqis, etc. his attitude about the war and the military in general have waned and i feel for him and his family (wife, two young children). when he would come back, i would wait for him to contact me as he was a bit "off" after returning each time. ("freaking out when i wake up in my own bed and can't find my weapon"). he has been at fallujah and most major marine battles over the course of the war. thankfully, he has not been injured.
the lt. col pilots c-130s. an academy grad, he has the charisma and poise of a veteran officer. he has been to iraq twice, flown airlifts for banda aceh (tsunami relief), and new orleans.
both have about 3 years to go before retirement. both of my friends are close to each other and have helped each other after particularly bad experiences.
lt.col received his dream assignment about 18 months ago: wing commander in germany. great way to finish his career! he loves it as do his kids and wife.
gunny had a tough choice after returning stateside last summer: stay at pendleton and serve a 4th tour or transfer to lejune in NC and not go over for #4. his wife did not want to goto NC but didn't want her husband to go back to iraq. their children are now getting old enough to understand the danger their father is in each time he is deployed. for me, it was tough to watch. i couldn't imagine not liking your job, not being able to get out of it, let alone to have put in that much time into a career, only to walk away empty-handed.
fortunately, a rare chance came the gunny's way...an assignment in germany, thanks to a restructuring of the USMC's african sector (i don't remember the proper terminology). gunny jumps on it that day after a quick consult with the the wife.
now lt.col and gunny are ~75 miles apart. both are going to retire together in germany, both of their families near them. it makes me smile to read about their almost-weekly adventures at the nurburgring, exploring the bavarian countryside and barely keeping out of trouble. |
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| malmon |
| Why post a story that links 9-11 to Iraq when it’s not true? And for added flavor, call it perspective from someone who has been there. Is it because when you ask for the facts and the truth, you will be quickly labeled as unpatriotic? |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Thank you for your insight.
I posted it to provide some perspective from someone who HAS BEEN THERE.
Please feel free to comment when you get back.:rolleyes:
I've never been there, and don't ever expect to be. I'm free to comment now. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Why post a story that links 9-11 to Iraq when it’s not true? And for added flavor, call it perspective from someone who has been there. Is it because when you ask for the facts and the truth, you will be quickly labeled as unpatriotic?
Maybe be because it was the events of 911 that inspired his dedication to the cause.
Issue being he was there and saw what was going on.
It is a different perspective than those of us who have not.
It seemed that you chose to nit-pic his words, rather than absorb the whole of the post. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
I've never been there, and don't ever expect to be. I'm free to comment now.
Comment away.
I think my answer to malmon covers why I felt his was off-base. |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Why post a story that links 9-11 to Iraq when it’s not true? ....................... Is it because when you ask for the facts and the truth, you will be quickly labeled as unpatriotic?
................and just where is the link you mention? This man along with many others were motivated by the events of Sep 11 to serve our country in the military, that's no link.......... you shouldn't read anything into his post. |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Comment away.
I think my answer to malmon covers why I felt his was off-base.
Your implication was that someone who hasn't served in Iraq has less right to express an opinion on the matter, or that their opinion is of lesser value. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
Your implication was that someone who hasn't served in Iraq has less right to express an opinion on the matter, or that their opinion is of lesser value.
Sorry if you interpreted it that way.
I found his comment very narrow minded considering what was posted.
My guess is he only read until one of his big red buttons was pressed, and he shot off an response while still blinded with rage.
But, as a very good friend of mine says; "I could be wrong". ;) |
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| osteome |
So can I comment, since I am in Iraq at the moment?
Just finishing up my first tour in its 13 month and should make it back just before the 15 month mark is met. We arrived expecting 12 months and then got extending to 15 to provide relief to other units. I have been in two different locations on this tour, splitting the time almost equally between the city of Hit, west of Ramadi, and currently even further to the west, near Rutbah, over watching the Jordanian and Syrian borders. I began my commitment with the Army in 1998 as medical student and went on active duty in 2005, after completing a civilian residency. My current role is a "battalion surgeon", although the surgeon term is a bit of a misnomer as I am an internist.
Fifteen months is quite a bit of time to be way from home and I wonder at times why I did not join the Navy (seven months on average) or the Air Force (four months on average). Then again, I was an enlisted soldier in the Army Reserve as the means to help pay for my undergraduate degree, so I "stuck with what I know". I will get to bid farewell to the place soon, work my way back to Germany, where I am normally assigned, and bide my time for at least 12 months. I cannot complain too much though as this is my first tour, but for many around me, it is their third.
I have had the opportunity to see a bit of the area around each area of operations as my position provides me a role in the civil affairs mission of the task force. My trips outside of the wire were mostly to inspect the local hospitals and clinics. I have also had the opportunity to treat a few civilians during the missions, although in the Anbar the USMC, under whom we fall, generally discourages the regular interaction of coalition forces with routine medical care as it hampers the efforts for the local citizens to become more dependent on the Iraqi infrastructure, which is improving.
For the most part, we have made most of our inroads in each community by supplying some direct support, but more importantly by empowering the local city and town councils and having them recognized by the provincial government in Ramadi (basically, give a man a fish and you feed for a day, teach him to fish and you feed for life). Obviously there are some growing pains in the process and at times we do provide direct support (fuel for the hospital generators, medications and supplies, oxygen tank exchange, etc). The focus of the mission though is to establish the rule of law and help build up those systems to make it self-sustaining. I have seen both success and failure in this objective, but overall would say that the peace has been kept in our areas of operations.
Given our time line, we arrived just in time to reap the rewards of the "Anbar awakening". The unit that we replaced back in January of 2007 took a lot of indirect fire and casualties in combat operations during their year here. We have not suffered a single KIA in our battalion, and have only evacuated 3 people from theater due to wounds. We have a degree of luck in avoiding most combat injuries all together and those that we have seen have been relatively minor. I have personally treated more Iraqi Army and Police personnel injured in combat than the Army, Marine, or Navy personnel that have shared our battle space. It would appear in my little, relatively quiet corner of the country, the local forces are leading the way (with our help) in terms of protection and are growing more adept at self government. We are not going to erase generations of tribal rule, but the "order" offered by a central and local government seems to be catching on. Granted the previous regime was a central government, but I have been to places that were actually in worse shape prior to us getting here.
To comment on the original post, I am not sure when that synopsis was written, but I seen few instances of abuse of the populace or a breakdown of military standards of conduct. Each of the detainees with injuries that I have medically screened since arriving here (maybe 20 of over 450) were all victims of the local authorities working them over before we they were turned over to us. I document this as they arrive and participate in a system that monitors detainee health at each change of custody.
I am also kind of puzzled by his wife's hampered access to him when he returned. If I had to sit through one more brief or fill out one more form about emergency information and making sure that my wife had all of the tools to succeed while I was gone (will, full power of attorney, access to to the financial accounts), prior to even leaving for the desert, I was going to pop. Certainly one's family may have to be proactive to stay in the loop once the soldier leaves, but there were some many redundant checks in the system to make sure that their needs were addressed prior to boarding the aircraft, that the situation seems a bit odd.
At any rate......I have not seen the command take needless risks with the soldiers that I have worked with. I have not seen military vehicles running over people or pets, desecration of mosques, or detainee abuse. I have seen the fruits of the local populace pointing out weapon caches and providing other intelligence.
I have seen waste and fraud in the local populace and probably at the hands of the numerous contractors here, but I would imagine that the same occurred in post war Europe. That does not make it right, but I am sure that it is a common occurrence in this type of a setting. Only at our second location have we been in the position to benefit from KBR support. While I enjoy the food in this location, I shudder to think what it truly costs in the contract. Getting clothes washed in relatively clean non-potable water does beat the previous experience in washing it in water that was essentially pumped out the Euphrates. I would pay for this benefit out of pocket.
I have seen and been among the troops that have made "sacrifices" over here, but it is a war zone. While I would have enjoyed being on a "mega-FOB" (got to a movie tonight, or go to the pool? Do I want Subway or Pizza Hut for lunch?), I was not pissed off because the power went out for a day or two or when two hot meals per day was the norm. Heck, this is the military, this is a war zone, and those that went before me from Verdun to the Bulge to OIF I had a lot crappier that I have had over the last 13 months. And I remind myself that in some of the "classic battles" in previous conflicts we would lose more soldiers in one day of combat than we have in the past 5 years. So I guess that any current personal sacrifice is really not that bad in the big picture. I know that the command is pretty darn proud of the battalion for doing its job, no matter what the conditions have been.
I have been genuinely thanked by the local populace in one month and I have had a grenade chucked at me while on a local clinic visit (no injuries to anyone) in the next month. I actually had to process the detainee connected with the episode. He was doing what he thought (or was told) was right, but I got to go to sleep in my own bunk that night.
I can sit here and send an e-mail , post to a bulletin board, and instant message my wife almost whenever I want to around my duty day. I can have my internet and phone service cut off at any time if we suffer a loss somewhere in the ranks in the region, so that the higher command can inform the family and not find out from an e-mail from a buddy. That outage may be for a few days, but it is always the right thing to do.
I have not had to explain to a loved one why somebody died from wounds in my aid station. I have sent home a couple of soldiers who maybe should not have deployed in the first place due existing medical ailments, but were moved along in the system to deploy. I have met little resistance in these cases, so there is some comfort in that.
I would say that the place is the land of contrasts and at times, opposing aims. I think that my task force has made a beneficial difference over the last 13 months and overall the situation here appears to be better than what most of the media outlets portray it to be. I will not comment on the reasons for coming here 5 years ago. As I have written this from the perspective of an army officer here on the ground, my opinion, whether in support or not, should not enter in the picture. I do support my troops and have been pleased with their performance and dedication. Politics are actually rarely discussed over here, publicly or privately....sports, now that can cause quite the fight.
Is our presence here necessary now? Yes I believe that it is needed for stability and eventual success, but believe me, we are doing all we can to make sure that we can allow Iraq to succeed with minimal input by the time OIF 7 rolls around!
I will most likely extend in the Army when the time comes to do so in about 6 months. My scholarship repayment obligation will be complete, but I have enjoyed my period of service. I will do a service extension in part to extend my experiences in Europe and because I enjoy my unique patient population, active duty and retiree.
I certainly put myself at risk for making a repeat visit here, but the oath I took and will take again does not really afford me the opportunity to "pick and choose" what I wish to honor in its words. I will be held to every word in that oath and feel that I count myself in very good company with that. |
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| robrecht |
| Thank you, osteome, for your wonderful service and for sharing your perspective here! |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by osteome
So can I comment, since I am in Iraq at the moment?
Thank you for the post, but more so for your service. |
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| malmon |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Sorry if you interpreted it that way.
I found his comment very narrow minded considering what was posted.
My guess is he only read until one of his big red buttons was pressed, and he shot off an response while still blinded with rage.
But, as a very good friend of mine says; "I could be wrong". ;)
Blinded with rage? What rage? You posted a story about a young man who because of 9-11 ends up in Iraq, I just pointed out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.
By the way, I strongly agree with your very good friend. |
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| Samuel2003 |
| So much of what happens over there gets omitted or filtered out of news reports back here (I work with quite a few ex and reserve military personnel who have BTDT). Thanks for sharing and your service Osteome (and everyone else who has or is currently serving!). |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Why post a story that links 9-11 to Iraq when it’s not true? And for added flavor, call it perspective from someone who has been there. Is it because when you ask for the facts and the truth, you will be quickly labeled as unpatriotic?
...
... You posted a story about a young man who because of 9-11 ends up in Iraq, I just pointed out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. ...
The young man reacted to 9-11 by deciding to serve our country and enlist in the military. That he ended up in Iraq was happenstance, although central to the context of the rest of the story. Nowhere in the original post did I see anyone making any claim about any link of 9-11 to Iraq. I can understand the reaction your comments received, even though I didn't particularly care for the tone of either. |
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| malmon |
| Please let me rephrase. Because of 9-11, this young man joined the military and somehow, not by choice, ended up in Iraq (who had nothing to do with 9-11). When he should have been in Afghanistan hunting down Bin Laden (the one responsible for 9-11). |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Blinded with rage? What rage? You posted a story about a young man who because of 9-11 ends up in Iraq, I just pointed out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.
By the way, I strongly agree with your very good friend.
OK, I see your logic.
Because of the events of 9-11 he joined the military,
because he joined the military he ended up in Iraq.
And the rest of the post is just his rambling.
Therefore the single most important thing about his post for you to comment on is your little factoid!
Thank you for clarifying that for me.
I kind of look at the first couple of lines as setting the stage to bring context to the rest of the post. I was so misguided and am forever in your debt for showing me the error of my ways.
Of course. I could be wrong. :rolleyes: |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
I can understand the reaction your comments received, even though I didn't particularly care for the tone of either.
I see what you mean. :4: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
I see what you mean. :4:
Maybe he need to adjust the tone of his post.
Nah, it could not be that. |
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| Roger |
quote:
Originally posted by osteome
So can I comment, since I am in Iraq at the moment?
Fifteen months is quite a bit of time to be way from home and I wonder at times why I did not join the Navy (seven months on average) or the Air Force (four months on average). Then again, I was an enlisted soldier in the Army Reserve as the means to help pay for my undergraduate degree, so I "stuck with what I know".
Yes, you can and thanks for doing it. Thanks for your service, I'm active Navy and have deployed a few times in support of this war. Never for more than 6 months and always on a ship or submarine. Much, much different than being on the ground, but I did join the Navy after all !!!!!
My reason for responding is to both thank you for what you're doing on the ground and also to remind/inform others that the Navy has about 13,000 Sailors on the ground in support of this war.
The general public see's people in cammies and thinks everybody is in the Army or Marines, not true, many of who you see are Sailors. |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by osteome
So can I comment, since I am in Iraq at the moment?
...
Thanks, in part to everyone like you, we all can "feel free" to comment. But I appreciate your post more than most. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Maybe he need to adjust the tone of his post.
Nah, it could not be that.
Maybe both of you could improve the tone of your posts. No need to create yet another a false dichotomy. :4: |
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| Nathan_P |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Maybe he need to adjust the tone of his post.
:2: :2: :2: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by Nathan_P
:2: :2: :2:
However, please note that I was not the one who brought up the request to Adjust the tone. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
However, please note that I was not the one who brought up the request to Adjust the tone.
Relevance? Please note that the person who did bring this up has a wonderfully delightful tone and you would be wise to listen. |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Thank you for the post, but more so for your service.
I will second that also. |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11, reports from our own goverment says so. Even the big DICK would twist his own words,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWdq7hg4dLU
This young man should have been in Afghanistan looking for the real mastermind, Bin Laden.
Iraq was to make a statement and finish the job(kill Saddam). Afghanistan is still in progress and the soon to be elected Republican leader will eradicate Bin Laden. |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Please let me rephrase. Because of 9-11, this young man joined the military and somehow, not by choice, ended up in Iraq (who had nothing to do with 9-11). When he should have been in Afghanistan hunting down Bin Laden (the one responsible for 9-11).
Do you have any credible intelligence report on the exact location of Bin Laden?.:rolleyes: |
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| malmon |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
Do you have any credible intelligence report on the exact location of Bin Laden?.:rolleyes:
You mean just like the credible intelligence reports on the presence of WMD in Iraq? :rolleyes:
Where do you find Al-Qaeda? They are based in Afghanistan, am I correct? So where do you think we should start looking? |
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| tangotango99 |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
You mean just like the credible intelligence reports on the presence of WMD in Iraq? :rolleyes:
Where do you find Al-Qaeda? They are based in Afghanistan, am I correct? So where do you think we should start looking?
The Taliban are in Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda are in just about every continent and Irag is a stronghold.I will leave the (looking) to the interligence dept. |
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| malmon |
Actually the Taliban is found in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.
"The overwhelming majority of Taliban movement were ethnic Pashtuns from southern Afghanistan and western Pakistan, along with a smaller number of volunteers from elsewhere, for example Europe or China."
While Al Qaeda is an international terrorist organization, it originated from Afghanistan.
"Al-Qaeda, alternatively spelled al-Qaida, al-Qa'ida or al-Qa'idah, (Arabic: القاعدة; transliteration: al-qā‘idah; translation: The Base) is an international alliance of Sunni Islamic militant organizations founded in 1988[4] by Abdullah Yusuf Azzam (later replaced by Osama Bin Laden) and other veteran "Afghan Arabs" after the Soviet War in Afghanistan. "
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
Do you have any credible intelligence report on the exact location of Bin Laden?.:rolleyes:
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
I will leave the (looking) to the interligence dept.
So why are you asking me for intelligence report? Go to your 'interligence dept' and ask them for Bin Laden's whereabouts, while you're there ask for the location of the WMDs in Iraq too. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
. . . . .
So why are you asking me for intelligence report? Go to your 'interligence dept' and ask them for Bin Laden's whereabouts, while you're there ask for the location of the WMDs in Iraq too.
Ask them about the search for DB Cooper and the Uni-bomber also.
Finding one person is harder then most people think.
As for the WMDs, don't forget we were trying to know what was happening inside a closed country. The whole world "knew' they had them from their own lies.
Guess they found the opposite side of "The boy who cried wolf" story! |
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| rocky |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Ask them about the search for DB Cooper and the Uni-bomber also.
Finding one person is harder then most people think.
As for the WMDs, don't forget we were trying to know what was happening inside a closed country. The whole world "knew' they had them from their own lies.
Guess they found the opposite side of "The boy who cried wolf" story!
If the whole world knew, where are they?
What do you mean by closed? Where is the evidence? What relevancy does this have to support your position on this matter? |
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