| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Gotta love the RX-8! Been wanting to buy one for years. ...
I've been too busy or it's been too cold to fix an annoying rattle in my beloved 15+year-old Miata. It's been driving me absolutely crazy for the past couple of weeks, not too hard to fix, just a lovers' quarrel really.
So last night I went out and fixed it for my long trip today. Left early in the morning in my trusted old friend, let her warm up a little, no rattle, but as soon as I red-lined it at 7k for the first time this morning on my old country road I was struck by a profound sense of guilt and betrayal. I was on my way to pick up an RX-8.
Finally. I've wanted one for years ever since I first test drove one January 2nd, 2004.
But I could never imagine getting rid of my Miata. It's been my daily driver since the day I left the monastery in 1996, my older brother had helped me buy it used with only 9k miles on it. Two kids later, I really should have a family car. But instead I bought a hard top, reupholstered her torn seats with leather, upgraded the stereo, bought her 7-lb wheels and super sticky summer tires, put on stronger sway bars and end-links, replaced the leaky power steering rack with a brand new manual rack, added nice chrome and polished aluminum accents inside and out, removed 100+ lbs of unnecessry weight, even raced her on the track a few times. I could never get rid of this car ... ever. She knows that. She'll always be there in the barn garage, ready to go topless every weekend in the summer. In less than 10 years, I'll be able to race her in vintage sports car hill climbs.
But I've got two boys and only one sports car and I can only take one of them for a drive at a time with the Cars soundtrack blasting away and both of us bouncing back and forth smiling. Life is a highway ... When I die, which one will inherit the Miata? Depends on who's most interested in helping me bolt on a turbocharger I guess. But both of them LOVE to help Daddy work on his cool red car. Only one thing left to do. Gotta get a 4-seater sports car.
So I did it. Finally. |
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| Flyimports |
| I thought after all of the unbelievable hype that mazda would have done something else with rx series, or at least shared the mill with another line if it was as good as they said it was. I noticed too that the newest design ('09) left everything the same and didn't change looks or power after all these years on the market. Either way, congrats! |
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| jay |
Sweet! Congrats! Gotta keep those kids happy. :p
Update your signature!:D Had to bust on you somehow, since I can't use the smiley. :4: |
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| whizmo |
Gorgeous car, I've owned two of the earlier models and they were great.
The only think that gives me pause now is the gas mileage. I just can't see ever buying a small personal car in this day and age that can consume the better part of a $100 bill at the gas pump.
- Mark |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by Flyimports
I thought after all of the unbelievable hype that mazda would have done something else with rx series, or at least shared the mill with another line if it was as good as they said it was. I noticed too that the newest design ('09) left everything the same and didn't change looks or power after all these years on the market. Either way, congrats!
Thanks. We do expect a new RX-7 2-seater in the near future. Problem with the 1.3 is that it's really too small for larger platforms in today's horsepower wars (but it's more than sufficient for me). I would have expected a turbo or supercharged RX-8 for the last year or two before the next upgrade but the sales just weren't there to justify any real investment. The '09 has some important engine improvements but no more power nor better fuel consumption, which is very poor. I had expected direct injection sooner. It is finally coming with the 1.6l rotary but that's a still few years out. It will be all aluminum, 20% lighter and 23% more power. I waited a couple years for direct injection, but finally decided the current model was better than nothing until the 1.6l comes out. I love light weight little rotary engines, but the real genius of the car is its incredible handling that is, of course, related to the low and rearward placement of the little engine. Some people even call it a mid-engine car technically, but I think that's an exaggeration. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
Sweet! Congrats! Gotta keep those kids happy. :p
Update your signature!:D Had to bust on you somehow, since I can't use the smiley. :4:
Thanks. May have to wait until we get back from Disneyworld. Don't want to post any more pics until I get a couple of super duper important mods bolted on. |
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| 2ndhonda |
I have friends disagree with me all the time, but I think the RX-8 is one of the best looking cars of the last 10 years. Congrats. I still remember the first time I test drove the RX-8. I could get over the gas consumption any day.
Cheers.
Tim |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Gorgeous car, I've owned two of the earlier models and they were great.
The only think that gives me pause now is the gas mileage. I just can't see ever buying a small personal car in this day and age that can consume the better part of a $100 bill at the gas pump.
- Mark
Yeah, that was the final obstacle, until I just said screw it, my commute is only 13 miles and I can get 40 mpg coasting in my Miata so my fleet average is still pretty good. Besides, if the crude oil bubble doesn't burst, I can always convert the rotary to run on hydrogen ... just to piss off N_Jay, of course.
:2: :2: :2: |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
... I can always convert the rotary to run on hydrogen ...
:2: :2: :2:
Or diesel or electric. :p |
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| colorider |
Robrecht,
VERY sweet ride!!!!!! Love the color!!! Congrats and looking forward to more pictures! |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by colorider
Robrecht,
VERY sweet ride!!!!!! Love the color!!! Congrats and looking forward to more pictures!
Thanks, ye olde farte! Yeah, I really like Phantom Blue on the RX-8. But it was discontinued for 2008 so I jumped on this one at an incredible price. It's one of those colors that changes depending on the light. Sometimes it's more of a very dark teal and other times there's more than a hint of grean reflecting off certain angles. I hear Dr. Guggenheim had something to do with the development of Phantom Blue. |
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| Sportymonk |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
... and I can get 40 mpg coasting in my Miata so my fleet average is still pretty good. ...
Did you get rid of the Miata or simply buy another car, expanding the "Fleet"?
Was in another town a week or so back and just had to take a moment to stop and look at a PHRT Miata (Copper Red, second choice behind Highland Green). Wife agreed I looked good in it. Have her approval, now just need of overcome a few thousand reasons I can't get it.
Are you a member of Miata.net? If so, what is your avatar/name?
Happy zoom zooming. |
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| jestmaty |
Now THAT is one of the sexiest, straight out of the box, sports cars I've ever seen. I thought black was sweet, but that color is 'da bomb'.
I miss my early 80's RX7 that I owned for about 3 months... sold it back to the guy I bought if from after owning for about 90 days. This was back in the early 90's and he needed quick money. Got back on his feet and we traded back. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by Sportymonk
Did you get rid of the Miata or simply buy another car, expanding the "Fleet"?
Was in another town a week or so back and just had to take a moment to stop and look at a PHRT Miata (Copper Red, second choice behind Highland Green). Wife agreed I looked good in it. Have her approval, now just need of overcome a few thousand reasons I can't get it.
Are you a member of Miata.net? If so, what is your avatar/name?
Happy zoom zooming.
No, I will never get rid of my Miata. I will use it on weekends with the top off in the summer and actually it's a fantastic car in the snow now that I have a 2nd set of wheels with 4 snow tires. The RX-8 has summer high performance tires on it and is therefore completely useless in the snow. (It's actually against the law in Japan to put all-season tires on an RX-8.)
Or I've always wanted to turbo it to increase it's capability on the track, but mostly just because my Dad designed Diesel engines and always tried to teach me about turbochargers since I was a very little kid. It would be fun to pass that on to my kids as they get older.
Copper red is a very nice color on the PHRT. It was only available on the RX-8 one year as a special edition Shinka and I would have bought one except it had the moon roof which takes away 1-2 inches of head room.
You will not regret getting a Miata if you're still considering it. Older Miatas are dirt cheap if cost is a concern and they're very reliable and easy to fix when they're not. In 2005 Consumer Reports called the Miata the most reliable car of the century. A little bit of an exaggeration perhaps, but my daily driver 15-year-old Miata still has near perfect compression and I redline it as often as I can.
But if you do have to fix something, there's a ton of help available over at Miata.net. Oh, and I'm robrecht over there also. :roadtrip: |
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| robrecht |
| BTW, here's a pic of the upcoming 1.6l rotary that has s larger displacment but is 20% lighter. Gotta love an engine that's so small! Since rotaries are essentially 2-stroke engines, the 1.6l effectively compares to a 3.2l 4-stroke piston engine. |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Copper red is a very nice color on the PHRT. It was only available on the RX-8 one year as a special edition Shinka and I would have bought one except it had the moon roof which takes away 1-2 inches of head room.
But if you do have to fix something, there's a ton of help available over at Miata.net. Oh, and I'm robrecht over there also. :roadtrip:
It seems the Copper Red is the most difficult color to find on the PRHT, at least for the '08 MY. I have only seen ONE in person. I'm very happy with my Stormy Blue.
I too wondered if you were over on (MX-5)miata.net, but I just found your name. :cool: I'm "Rodster" over there, but spend most of my time in the NC area.
:) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
Or diesel or electric. :p
Hmmm, A diesel rotary???
Would love to seen the apex seals that hold back 20:1 compression. ;) ;) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
BTW, here's a pic of the upcoming 1.6l rotary that has s larger displacment but is 20% lighter. Gotta love an engine that's so small! Since rotaries are essentially 2-stroke engines, the 1.6l effectively compares to a 3.2l 4-stroke piston engine.
Aren't they more like a 4 stroke with three 'pistons' per rotor? |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Aren't they more like a 4 stroke with three 'pistons' per rotor?
Hmmm ... I have to think about that. Wish I could ask my Dad. What I meant is simply that there is a power stroke for each revolution. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Hmmm ... I have to think about that. Wish I could ask my Dad. What I meant is simply that there is a power stroke for each revolution.
There are actually three power "pulses" per rotor revolution, but the rotors turn at 1/3 the main shaft speed.
Each chamber (3 per rotor) runs through all four strokes in each rotor revolution.
And when the seals get old and you run them rich (back in the old carburetor days) you get great flames out the exhaust on decel. ;)
Not that I would know how an RX-2 sedan, RX-3 coupe or RX-4 wagon runs when flogged hard! :D :D :D |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Piston engine goes BOING-BOING-BOING but the Mazda goes HMMMMMM.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHzeGEHWMjo
- Mark
The don't go "HMMMMMM" at 10,000 RPM with un-muffled exhaust!
:D :D :D |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
And when the seals get old and you run them rich (back in the old carburetor days) you get great flames out the exhaust on decel. ;)
Awesome! My 3- & 5-year-old boys would love that! |
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| ramirami |
| awesome..congrats |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Awesome! My 3- & 5-year-old boys would love that!
But don't let them hang around when you run it up to redline unmuffled!
It's been known to cause permanent hearing loss (and power envy!):D ;) |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
But don't let them hang around when you run it up to redline unmuffled!
It's been known to cause permanent hearing loss!
Huh? What'd you say sonny?
;) |
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| Sportymonk |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
....You will not regret getting a Miata if you're still considering it. ...
If, IF???? I found your old thread here aback in 04 where you were wanting an RX then. Well, same applies here. I wanted a Miata instead of a Pilot (sorry folks) but when the family got through shuffling vehicle needs around, the wife, son, and daughter got the Civics and Neon and I got the Pilot. Don't get me wrong, i love it but i want something sporty (I am sportymonk you know). Passed on the 57 Jag XK-140 and got the 72 Pinto which was sorta sporty (1600 cc, f4 speed and AM radio and a fold down rear seat. Great for a college kid. Did I mention the fold down rear seat.?) Bottom line, I will get the Miata, just have to wait for things to come together. IF is not a question. I just may have to wait a while like you did Robrecht. (Already have downloaded Humfritz's list of mods) |
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| jdeanski |
| Congratulations on your new wheels. It looks great and I love the color. But I must admit when I saw the picture the first thing that came to mind was that it was a redesigned and updated Ford Probe!:rolleyes: |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jdeanski
Congratulations on your new wheels. It looks great and I love the color. But I must admit when I saw the picture the first thing that came to mind was that it was a redesigned and updated Ford Probe!:rolleyes:
The Probe was built on the MX-5 platform, no? |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
The Probe was built on the MX-5 platform, no?
No, shared with the Mazda MX-6.
:) |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by colorider
No, shared with the Mazda MX-6.
:)
I think I knew that at one time, just googled it, and confused myself. Wasn't the Ford Contour on the same platform? It was the world beater that was gonna kill off the Accord. :p I owned one, and drop one word in "world beater" and you got it. :D |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
There are actually three power "pulses" per rotor revolution, but the rotors turn at 1/3 the main shaft speed.
Each chamber (3 per rotor) runs through all four strokes in each rotor revolution.
Let me see if I got this right. All I was trying to say is that whereas in a conventional 4-stroke engine, each piston goes through only half of it's 4-stroke process with each turn of the crankshaft, in a rotary, you complete the entire intake, compression, power, and exhaust stroke with each rotation of the "main shaft." So I've seen people compare the 1.3l rotary engine with a conventional 2.6l 4-stroke engine. Essentially, the rotary packs more power into a lighter weight and smaller volume of displacement. Similar in that way to a 2 stroke engine. Is that sort of correct? Maybe? If not, I'm just gonna go for a drive and wait for one of my kids to get one of those clear plastic engine models in a few years. :p |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by colorider
It seems the Copper Red is the most difficult color to find on the PRHT, at least for the '08 MY. I have only seen ONE in person.
I had no idea. The local Mazda dealership here actually has four 2008 Copper Red PHRTs on their lot right now. You need to schedule that trip to New Jersey! :roadtrip: |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
I had no idea. The local Mazda dealership here actually has four 2008 Copper Red PHRTs on their lot right now. You need to schedule that trip to New Jersey! :roadtrip:
Really? Is it a large dealership? My bro-in-law and his wife are "sorta" interested in a PRHT and the Copper Red is one of their choices. My sis-in-law owns a '06 Copper Red rag top. She had a 'RED 92 prior to it.
:) |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by colorider
Really? Is it a large dealership? My bro-in-law and his wife are "sorta" interested in a PRHT and the Copper Red is one of their choices. My sis-in-law owns a '06 Copper Red rag top. She had a 'RED 92 prior to it.
:)
Not really. You can search their inventory on Mazda's USA website. It's Flemngton Mazda in 08822 zip code. Better act fast 'though with Spring just around the corner. :roadtrip: |
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| Samuel2003 |
Hey, where's the Bling (chrome)??? :confused:
:2: |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by Samuel2003
Hey, where's the Bling (chrome)??? :confused:
:2:
. |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Not really. You can search their inventory on Mazda's USA website. It's Flemngton Mazda in 08822 zip code. Better act fast 'though with Spring just around the corner. :roadtrip:
I'll pass it on to my bro-in-law, but I would not expect it to be off much use since they are so many state apart.
Thanks!! |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Not really. You can search their inventory on Mazda's USA website. It's Flemngton Mazda in 08822 zip code. Better act fast 'though with Spring just around the corner. :roadtrip:
I'll pass it on to my bro-in-law, but I would not expect it to be off much use since they are so many state apart.
Thanks!! |
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| LChisum |
I bought a new Mazda RX7 in 1982. They were still pretty much of a curiosity at the time. It was my "middle age crazy" car. I think it was stickered between $10,000 and $11,000. I loved the slot car handling. It was especially neat when the retractable light covers were up, as they reminded me of gun sights. I would tend to push it a little hard at times. I discovered that on wet, curvy freeway exits it would tend to fishtail at speed.
After a couple of years and a couple of scary fishtails, the crazies passed, and I traded it for a more conventional Chevy Monte Carlo.
Larry :roadtrip: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Let me see if I got this right. All I was trying to say is that whereas in a conventional 4-stroke engine, each piston goes through only half of it's 4-stroke process with each turn of the crankshaft, in a rotary, you complete the entire intake, compression, power, and exhaust stroke with each rotation of the "main shaft."
No. With each turn of the rotor you go all three chambers go through all four phases.
The mainshaft is turning at three time the rotor speed. So with each tun of the mainshaft one of the "chambers" fires.
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
So I've seen people compare the 1.3l rotary engine with a conventional 2.6l 4-stroke engine. Essentially, the rotary packs more power into a lighter weight and smaller volume of displacement. Similar in that way to a 2 stroke engine. Is that sort of correct? Maybe? If not, I'm just gonna go for a drive and wait for one of my kids to get one of those clear plastic engine models in a few years. :p
Get the model! (It's cool!) |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Get the model! (It's cool!)
Well, thanks for trying to explain! quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Not that I would know how an RX-2 sedan, RX-3 coupe or RX-4 wagon runs when flogged hard! :D :D :D
Why did you stop buying rotaries ... the increasing price of gas? |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by colorider
I'll pass it on to my bro-in-law, but I would not expect it to be off much use since they are so many state apart.
Thanks!!
I realize maybe thery're not really interested, but if you want to help them decide, there's an automatic at a dealer about 50 miles from Loveland: Link
And a manual transmission one about 70 miles from Loveland: Link
I learned a trick about searching their inventory while looking for one of the very rare Phantom Blue RX-8 Sport models with the performance package but not the hokey spoiler. ;) |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
I realize maybe thery're not really interested, but if you want to help them decide, there's an automatic at a dealer about 50 miles from Loveland: Link
And a manual transmission one about 70 miles from Loveland: Link
I learned a trick about searching their inventory while looking for one of the very rare Phantom Blue RX-8 Sport models with the performance package but not the hokey spoiler. ;)
Interesting!!!! The first dealer is where we first saw a Stormy Blue PRHT in person. It was an auto, but at least from it we knew what we wanted. We then went to the dealer about 15 minutes from our home and they had a red PRHT. We didn't care for the "new" red they started using (I think in '07), but we got the chance to drive a 6-speed. In the meantime, I had checked stock and found a Stormy Blue in Denver and so I asked if our local dealer could make a trade for it. They did and the rest is history!
So, what's your search trick?
:8: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Well, thanks for trying to explain!
It was late, and I still had a DVD to watch (and the wife was reminding me I had been in the office all day)
So here goes.
Take the rotor, but think about only one "face (chamber).
As that chamber rotates around the inside of the chamber it goes through all 4 phases very distinctly, unlike a two stroke with combined phases.
The other two faces are just doing the same thing just following behind 1/3 of a rotor revolution.
The rotor turns in an eccentric path around the mainshaft. The two are gee red at 3:1 so for each complete revolution of the rotor, the mainshaft turns 3 times. So to an outside observer, he sees one power cycle per rotor per mainshaft revolution.
Silly me, I bet Wiki has a better explanation (it usually does)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
Yep!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Why did you stop buying rotaries ... the increasing price of gas?
The RX-4 we bought for my mom when I was about 15. Yes, we got the 5 speed, sport package!! :D :D
The RX-3 was in a stable of cars used as parts runners and weekend racers from a foreign car shop I used to hang out at back in highschool.
The RX-2 I bought for my girlfriend (now wife) at about the same time.
The "Formula Mazda" was actually a guy who took an old, abused and unsafe formula like sports car chassis and bolted on a junkyard rotary engine. I don't think he counted on the HP to weight ratio to be quite so extreme!!!
Then the shop owner got a GT-6 Mk3 (That he would not let us use as a parts runner). Then one day he needed me to get a part for a customers MB in a very big hurry (and my car had no gas, and the RX-3 was out), so I had to take the GT. The part was back in no time! and I had a GT-6 Mk3 in about 3 months!
Then British reliability lead me to getting a Porsche, and RX-2 reliability lead my wife and I to get our first Honda. |
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| jdeanski |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
British reliability
That's an oxymoron!:4: |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by colorider
So, what's your search trick?
:8:
When you're on the Search Inventory page (after entering a car model), go to the dealer tab and enter the zip code or city & state you want to start from. You then have the option to expand your search to include 10, 20, 30, 40, 75, 100, or 150 miles. Problem is, even if you select 150 miles, it will only show you inventory within 50 miles. So ignore that drop-down menu--just use the 50 mile default for your search. After you've done the 50-mile search, in the upper right corner of the results, there's a link entitled "Show results for more dealers. That will expand your search up to 150 miles or 10 pages of results, whichever comes first. Sort by distance and check the last one to see the actual radius covered and choose new zip codes accordingly if necessary. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
It was late, and I still had a DVD to watch (and the wife was reminding me I had been in the office all day)
So here goes. ...
No, I was sincerely thanking you for your efforts to explain despite my ignorance. I'm gonna try and track down the source of my 2-stroke comparison. It had something to do with doubling the displacement volume of a rotary in order to compare them more fairly with conventional 4-stroke engines. Like you would do with a 2-stroke engine. Otherwise, it does seem pretty impressive that they get 232 hp out of a 1.3l engine. Of course there's also the obvious similarity of premix or oil injection, but that doesn't relate to chamber volume. |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
When you're on the Search Inventory page (after entering a car model), go to the dealer tab and enter the zip code or city & state you want to start from. You then have the option to expand your search to include 10, 20, 30, 40, 75, 100, or 150 miles. Problem is, even if you select 150 miles, it will only show you inventory within 50 miles. So ignore that drop-down menu--just use the 50 mile default for your search. After you've done the 50-mile search, in the upper right corner of the results, there's a link entitled "Show results for more dealers . That will expand your search up to 150 miles or 10 pages of results, whichever comes first. Sort by distance and check the last one to see the actual radius covered and choose new zip codes accordingly if necessary.
Thanks - I'll try that!!!!!! Very Cool!!
:cool: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
No, I was sincerely thanking you for your efforts to explain despite my ignorance. I'm gonna try and track down the source of my 2-stroke comparison. It had something to do with doubling the displacement volume of a rotary in order to compare them more fairly with conventional 4-stroke engines. Like you would do with a 2-stroke engine. Otherwise, it does seem pretty impressive that they get 232 hp out of a 1.3l engine. Of course there's also the obvious similarity of premix or oil injection, but that doesn't relate to chamber volume.
No, I was sincerely in the office late and getting yelled at. :D
The doubling has been used for a long time.
The issue is displacement per mainshaft revolution vs displacement per rotor revolution.
So a 1.3 displaced 1.3 per mainshaft rev, but 3.9 per a rotor rev.
In racing what probably matters most is displacement per second at torque peak revs. I think this is where the 2:1 comes in.
I consider each chamber to be a "cylinder" so I think the 1.3 should really be called a 3.9, but that is just my thinking. |
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| vegasdude |
| Congratulations! :2: I haven't driven the RX-8 but had owned 2 RX-7s, one with a 12A and another with a 13B engine. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by vegasdude
Congratulations! :2: I haven't driven the RX-8 but had owned 2 RX-7s, one with a 12A and another with a 13B engine.
Thanks! It's amazing how many former or current rotary owners there are who are now coming up to me and talking about how much they love(d) their little engines. It's a real shame about the poor gas mileage, 'cause I want to drive this car everywhere. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Thanks! It's amazing how many former or current rotary owners there are who are now coming up to me and talking about how much they love(d) their little engines. It's a real shame about the poor gas mileage, 'cause I want to drive this car everywhere.
Where is the rev buzzer set these days? |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
It's a real shame about the poor gas mileage, 'cause I want to drive this car everywhere.
You've brought that double-pepperoni pizza home from the grocery store, you're now going to worry about the calories? :-)
The rotary engine's poor gas mileage is pretty much inherent in the breed. It's basically because rotaries have square shaped combustion chambers rather than round. That gives them a relatively large surface area in the combustion chamber exposed to the hot combustion gases which means they tend to reject more heat to the rotor and engine housing than an equivalent piston engine rejects to its piston, head, and cylinder walls. This higher heat loss results in greater cooling system demands and less efficiency.
It's about a 20% hit and Mazda has gotten some of it back with reduced weight and engine friction reduction, but this has always been the Achilles heel of the engine design.
- Mark |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Where is the rev buzzer set these days?
It beeps around 9k and the rev limiter is set at 9500. It's fun. :roadtrip: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
It beeps around 9k and the rev limiter is set at 9500. It's fun. :roadtrip:
Never shift till it beeps! :D |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Get the model! (It's cool!)
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
There are so minor difference because the model is a Wankel, and I think Mazda made some changes that are different from the Wankel design. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by Samuel2003
Hey, where's the Bling (chrome)??? :confused:
:2:
OK, here's the all important strakes for the (functional) front fender vents. Reminds me a little of the (non-functional) rear side vents on my Dad's blue '67 Mustang. |
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| jay |
| I'd take fender strakes over hundles any day, if I were forced to choose! :p |
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| colorider |
quote:
Originally posted by jay
I'd take fender strakes over hundles any day, if I were forced to choose! :p
Even chrome hundles????
:) |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
No, I was sincerely in the office late and getting yelled at. :D
The doubling has been used for a long time.
The issue is displacement per mainshaft revolution vs displacement per rotor revolution.
So a 1.3 displaced 1.3 per mainshaft rev, but 3.9 per a rotor rev.
In racing what probably matters most is displacement per second at torque peak revs. I think this is where the 2:1 comes in.
I consider each chamber to be a "cylinder" so I think the 1.3 should really be called a 3.9, but that is just my thinking.
Thanks, N_Jay. Here's a really good explanation by Fred Swain (aka rotarygod) that takes into account the complementary perspectives on how to answer this question. I'll only inlcude a small quote, but the whole page is worthwhile (note that he explains his differing use of the terms cycle and stroke).
quote:
The rotary engine as rated by Mazda is 1.3 liters because each individual rotor, following one face of one rotor through the complete cycle, has a swept displacement of 654cc or .65 liters. Multiply this times 2 rotors to achieve 1.3. Since this only accounts for 2 of the total of 6 rotor faces, we multiply our answer by 3 to get an actual displacement of 3.9 liters. However since the rotary engine is a 6 stroke engine and not a 4 stroke engine since it takes 3 complete eccentric shaft revolutions to fire all faces instead of the typical engine's 2, it only does 66% the work of a 4 stroke 3.9 liter engine. Calculating for this we divide 3.9 by 1.5 to get a total of 2.6 liters equivalent work to a 4 stroke piston engine. All of these, from a 1.3 liter in physical size package. Link
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Thanks, N_Jay. Here's a really good explanation by Fred Swain (aka rotarygod) that takes into account the complementary perspectives on how to answer this question. I'll only inlcude a small quote, but the whole page is worthwhile (note that he explains his differing use of the terms cycle and stroke).
It all makes sense except for the use of the term "six stroke"?
I see how he gets it, but think it is a stretch. It is definitely a 4 cycle engine. The cycles are distributed over a single rotation of a rotor. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
It all makes sense except for the use of the term "six stroke"?
I see how he gets it, but think it is a stretch. It is definitely a 4 cycle engine. The cycles are distributed over a single rotation of a rotor.
It is a stretch, I think he's purposefully separating both terms (cycle and stroke) and using them both elastically to wrap them around a rotary.
Using his elastic terminology, every engine really has all 4 cycles (periods, quarters, or phases). How could it be otherwise?
quote:
"Every internal combustion engine whether it is a 2 stroke, 4 stroke, diesel, gasoline, propane injected, etc. is a 4 cycle engine. Why? All of these engines take in air (intake), compress the air (compression), ignite the air whether by spark plug or glow plug (ignition), and expel it out the tailpipe (exhaust). There you go 4 cycles."
Likewise, he stretches the term stroke to speak first with reference to the motion of the crank and then returns to the more traditional use of the term with reference to the piston or rotor:
quote:
"The term "stroke" in this context refers to how many times the crankshaft or eccentric shaft makes a piston go up or down to complete the cycle. ...
On a rotary engine, the rotors are spinning at exactly 1/3 the speed of the eccentric shaft. From the time that the air entering one chamber goes through the combustion phases to the time it leaves the engine from the same chamber (rotor face), the eccentric shaft has gone around 3 complete times unlike a 4 strokes 2 times or a 2 strokes 1 time. If we do the math we see that the lobes of the eccentric shaft must have gone up and down 6 times (up, down, up, down, up, down). Since it does this process the exact same way every time for every rotor face, it is a 6 stroke engine. That’s right the rotary engine is a 6 stroke! Do not confuse these strokes with the 4 internal cycles that every engine has! ...
In all fairness to the terms I have used, the word "stroke" can be interchanged with the word "cycle" since both technically have the same definition. The terms "periods", "quarters", or "phases" can also be used correctly. I merely wrote it the way I did to get a certain mental picture going."
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
It is definitely a 4 cycle engine. The cycles are distributed over a single rotation of a rotor.
Actually, because there are in effect 3 piston heads per rotor, don't you really have 3 complete cycles distributed over a single rotation of each rotor? Thus 3 intakes per rotation, 3 combusions per rotation, 3 expansions, and 3 exhaustings. It is really is exhausting to think or talk about without my head spinning around! |
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| tangotango99 |
| Congratulations very nice vehicle .I hope you enjoy it for many years to come. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by tangotango99
Congratulations very nice vehicle .I hope you enjoy it for many years to come.
Thanks! I'm lovin' this car. I let a geeky genetic engineer drive it home the other day and insisted that he not be a wimp but hit the rev limiter as much as he dared.
He told me later he was grinning for the whole next day. :roadtrip: |
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| N_Jay |
If every engine is a 4 cycle, the what is a 2-cycle?:confused: :confused:
Y&es, there are three "cylinders" per rotor (as I said in an earlier post), and EACH goes through the 4 cycles in each revolution.
The 3:1 increase in the center shaft speed is kind of irrelevant.
What really matters is displacement per unit of time at peak HP.
And yes, congrats again on having a great little car.
I got to drive a friends RX-7 Turbo-II once. Now that will put a grin on your face for a WEEK!! |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
If every engine is a 4 cycle, the what is a 2-cycle?:confused: :confused:
Y&es, there are three "cylinders" per rotor (as I said in an earlier post), and EACH goes through the 4 cycles in each revolution.
The 3:1 increase in the center shaft speed is kind of irrelevant.
What really matters is displacement per unit of time at peak HP.
And yes, congrats again on having a great little car.
I got to drive a friends RX-7 Turbo-II once. Now that will put a grin on your face for a WEEK!!
According to his elastic use of comparative terminology, I guess a 2-cycle engine is temporarily more descriptively termed a 2-stroke engine. But he's not trying to permanently change terminology, just make sensible comparisons between piston and rotary displacement. I think the relation of the center shaft speed to pistons or rotars is only important when it comes to comparing piston engine displacement to rotary engine displacement and their respective power output. It helps him explain why you really can't expect comparative power output to a 3.9 L piston engine from a 1.3 L rotary. I'm sure he would not negate the importance of displacement per unit of time at peak HP.
I've been wondering if the poor thermal efficiecy of rotaries makes a turbocharger (or two) an especially attractive power option. ;) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
I've been wondering if the poor thermal efficiecy of rotaries makes a turbocharger (or two) an especially attractive power option. ;)
I don't know, if I recall correctly the boost of the factory street turbo car was fairly low. |
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| rocky |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I don't know, if I recall correctly the boost of the factory street turbo car was fairly low.
5.5 PSI for an '86-'88 and 7.5 PSI for an '89+. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
R&T: RX-7 2+2???
Interesting.
Time to start your X-Mass Club account at the Savings-and-Loan. :4: :4: |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Interesting.
Time to start your X-Mass Club account at the Savings-and-Loan. :4: :4:
Most people are thinking the 16x will put out more like 280-300 hp and if it's a 2-seater I sure hope it's a lot lighter than 3k lbs. If my little 1.3L doesn't prove to be reliable, I might consider putting in a 1.6L engine, lighter, more power, maybe better gas mileage with direct injection. But with my luck, my cars are pretty damn reliable for 15 years or so. |
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