| sblvro |
| Just drove to CT from little rock and back over the weekend with a short swing to Niagara falls. Used premium and the pilot averaged 19.5-21.5 mpg with high speed highway driving, continuous idling while at the rest stop, etc. tried regular 87 for comparison and it only managed 16-16.5 average mpg. This is on a 2003 honda pilot exlres with X1 thule cargo box, full weight of honda trail package and the just installed sidesteps(thanks tim! arrived on-time before the trip) and with 130,000 miles using mobil 1 5/30 EP. The best mileage was with the sunoco 93 getting 21.5 mpg with average speed of 80+ mph and GW bridge traffic to CT. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
Just drove to CT from little rock and back over the weekend with a short swing to Niagara falls. Used premium and the pilot averaged 19.5-21.5 mpg with high speed highway driving, continuous idling while at the rest stop, etc. tried regular 87 for comparison and it only managed 16-16.5 average mpg. This is on a 2003 honda pilot exlres with X1 thule cargo box, full weight of honda trail package and the just installed sidesteps(thanks tim! arrived on-time before the trip) and with 130,000 miles using mobil 1 5/30 EP. The best mileage was with the sunoco 93 getting 21.5 mpg with average speed of 80+ mph and GW bridge traffic to CT.
Did you track which gas was from states that have forced use of corn ethanol?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Did you track which gas was from states that have forced use of corn ethanol?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
all the pump I used had 10% ethanol. let's see, it was exxon, shell, sam's club, kroger, sunoco. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
all the pump I used had 10% ethanol. let's see, it was exxon, shell, sam's club, kroger, sunoco.
I am very sure they said "up to 10%, and I am just as sure they were all over the place except where required. |
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| sblvro |
| if the price difference is just 20 cents then it was worth it with you getting one gallon free for every fill-up. my range was bumped to 350miles before the low on fuel starts to light up. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
if the price difference is just 20 cents then it was worth it with you getting one gallon free for every fill-up. my range was bumped to 350miles before the low on fuel starts to light up.
Using the miles to the light coming on is a very inaccurate measure.
Inaccurate measures build better myths than plans.
Other than a difference in formulation or a miss-tuned car there is NO technical reason to expect or to get better mileage with higher octane. |
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| jay |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
I am very sure they said "up to 10%, and I am just as sure they were all over the place except where required.
The Shell station I use has put duct tape over the "up to" in "up to 10% ethanol added." |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Using the miles to the light coming on is a very inaccurate measure.
Inaccurate measures build better myths than plans.
Other than a difference in formulation or a miss-tuned car there is NO technical reason to expect or to get better mileage with higher octane.
it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact. how would you explain the difference in mileage then? how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result? how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?:rolleyes: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact.
As soon as you start using it to adjust your behaviour, then you have started treating it is fact.
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
how would you explain the difference in mileage then?
All the ways we have talked about in previous mileage threads. Combined with the ease of miss-assumptions on gas usage caused by poor measurement methods.
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result?
Because the formulation is an unknown combined with unreliable measurement methods.
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?
Because our engines adjust themselves and alternating tanks may add yet another source of error into conclusion.
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
:rolleyes:
With that I agree! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: |
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| sblvro |
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as you start using it to adjust your behaviour, then you have started treating it is fact. it is okay to get 16mpg vs 19-21mpg then?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how would you explain the difference in mileage then?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the ways we have talked about in previous mileage threads. Combined with the ease of miss-assumptions on gas usage caused by poor measurement methods. always your assumption/assertion
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the formulation is an unknown combined with unreliable measurement methods. which you can always consider as random population hence the different brand but using only premium. short sample size but with x numbers of fill-ups should be reliable.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because our engines adjust themselves and alternating tanks may add yet another source of error into conclusion. which means it is not mistuned but giving you better mileage with the new fuel=no error in my conclusion
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With that I agree! |
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| jcantanixon |
In most vehicles, the knock sensor is used to adjust the timing. If the fuel is causing pre-detonation, then it retards the timing until that goes away. I don't know if the Pilot fuel management system behaves in the same way, but it's possible that higher octane fuel allows the timing to be advanced a few more degrees resulting in a better mpg.
However, the only experience I have with this in a real world scenerio is higher performance engine that normally require 91 octane.:8: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as you start using it to adjust your behaviour, then you have started treating it is fact.
it is okay to get 16mpg vs 19-21mpg then?
Now, you are calling it fact again. Bad data is bad data, conclusions drawn on bad data are usually not valid.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how would you explain the difference in mileage then?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the ways we have talked about in previous mileage threads. Combined with the ease of miss-assumptions on gas usage caused by poor measurement methods.
always your assumption/assertion
Proven to be the best assumption/assertion until shown otherwise.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the formulation is an unknown combined with unreliable measurement methods.
which you can always consider as random population hence the different brand but using only premium. short sample size but with x numbers of fill-ups should be reliable.
I would ask how many tanks of each, as if enough bad samples might average out the bad data, but in general lots of bad data does not make for good data.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because our engines adjust themselves and alternating tanks may add yet another source of error into conclusion.
which means it is not mistuned but giving you better mileage with the new fuel=no error in my conclusion
Glad you have such a great understanding. So if it takes a few days of driving to clear a bad gas cap light, how much of each tank is "incorrectly tuned" after a change? Getting results you like does not make up for bad process.
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
[B]In most vehicles, the knock sensor is used to adjust the timing. If the fuel is causing pre-detonation, then it retards the timing until that goes away. I don't know if the Pilot fuel management system behaves in the same way, but it's possible that higher octane fuel allows the timing to be advanced a few more degrees resulting in a better mpg.
The Pilot's engine is not "octane adaptive". It will retard timing if it senses knock, but it will not advance timing to the point of incipent knock as some engines do. Thus, something would have to be very wrong with the engine for it to be knocking so badly that premium fuel would be able to correct the problem and raise mileage.
- Mark |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
The Pilot's engine is not "octane adaptive". It will retard timing if it senses knock, but it will not advance timing to the point of incipent knock as some engines do. Thus, something would have to be very wrong with the engine for it to be knocking so badly that premium fuel would be able to correct the problem and raise mileage.
- Mark
is that a general statement without proof or how can you explain the use of premium in towing if can really retard timing it can also advance timing. BTW my pilot mileage is average with all the other pilot so it is not having a bad mileage but improving on what I have now. This is a fully loaded pilot with tow hitch package, ball and all, huge thule cargo box up top, sidesteps, full size 245/70/16 dueler alenzas and loaded with travelers. it is not knocking if you know what I mean. |
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| Sunday Rider |
Hey sblvro
Thanks for sharing your findings. I always wondered if the high cost of Super was worth it. Sounds like it was.
Gas has become so expensive I have been driving the speed limit and taking it easy. I have found that this has added another 10-15% extra KM per tank.
I may give it a try, if I can stop crying when I see that I just paid $75 to fill it up. :D |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
is that a general statement without proof or how can you explain the use of premium in towing if can really retard timing it can also advance timing.
I'm not going to get into the "proof" thing - I've read the shop manual and other sources about this and an confident that the Honda doesn't have adapative knock sensing. Only a few cars do. Take it or leave it.
The recommendation for premium is simply to reduce the chances of knock under the heavier engine demands of towing.
These discussions of premium getting better mileage pop up now and then. Unless an engine is knocking badly on regular (high unlikely), there is no technical rationale to explain it since regular gas has a slightly higher heat content than premium, and everything else being equal, should return slightly better mileage. So it's much more likely varaince in the data - there are so many factors affecting mileage that you really have to have a lot of data (tens of tanks) to draw firm conclusions. But some folks really feel their data is good, so perhaps there is something that might be going on in an individual car's tuning.
- Mark |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
I'm not going to get into the "proof" thing - I've read the shop manual and other sources about this and an confident that the Honda doesn't have adapative knock sensing. Only a few cars do. Take it or leave it.
The recommendation for premium is simply to reduce the chances of knock under the heavier engine demands of towing.
These discussions of premium getting better mileage pop up now and then. Unless an engine is knocking badly on regular (high unlikely), there is no technical rationale to explain it since regular gas has a slightly higher heat content than premium, and everything else being equal, should return slightly better mileage. So it's much more likely varaince in the data - there are so many factors affecting mileage that you really have to have a lot of data (tens of tanks) to draw firm conclusions. But some folks really feel their data is good, so perhaps there is something that might be going on in an individual car's tuning.
- Mark
I agree, why would I throw money just to prove a point. But after putting premium vs regular and after doing the math realize the benefit of it have decide to use for the trip. local city driving though, I use regular. |
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| xGS |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
These discussions of premium getting better mileage pop up now and then. Unless an engine is knocking badly on regular (high unlikely), there is no technical rationale to explain it since regular gas has a slightly higher heat content than premium, and everything else being equal, should return slightly better mileage.
Don't you have that backwards?
[http://www.api.org/aboutoilgas/gaso...line-octane.cfm] |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by xGS
Don't you have that backwards?
[http://www.api.org/aboutoilgas/gaso...line-octane.cfm]
Perhaps, although I've read other sources that say the opposite. But it really isn't important as all sources (including this one) say the difference in heat content between different grades of fuel is insignificant.
The misconception that premium fuel has higher energy, burns cleaner, makes your engine run better, gets better mileage, etc. is one that persists despite all the credible technical references that say premium simply is less prone to knock. The oil companies perpetuated this misconception for many years by deceptive advertising that tried to up sell customers to more expensive fuel that they didn't need. For a period, there was a better detergent package in premium fuel, but this was discontinued many years ago.
That being said, there are a few engines that legitimately get better mileage on premium either due to their octane adaptive engine systems or some oddity of a particular engine. To every rule there is an exception.
- Mark |
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| EFR |
the higher the octane the slower the gas burns so you get better gas milage. but, the lower the octane the bigger explosion in the combustian chamber and you get more power. so if you are driving on the hwy i would use premium. if you are just driving around town, use the lowest octane that does not cause nock.
check out this link to top tier gasoline. http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html |
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| malmon |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
Just drove to CT from little rock and back over the weekend with a short swing to Niagara falls. Used premium and the pilot averaged 19.5-21.5 mpg with high speed highway driving, continuous idling while at the rest stop, etc. tried regular 87 for comparison and it only managed 16-16.5 average mpg. This is on a 2003 honda pilot exlres with X1 thule cargo box, full weight of honda trail package and the just installed sidesteps(thanks tim! arrived on-time before the trip) and with 130,000 miles using mobil 1 5/30 EP. The best mileage was with the sunoco 93 getting 21.5 mpg with average speed of 80+ mph and GW bridge traffic to CT.
Just came back from a long drive as well, although I did not calculate mpg, I totally agree that the extra $4 is worth it on a full tank fill-up. The acceleration is smoother with 91 octane compared with the 87 regular.
The Pilot is my wife's everyday vehicle and I drive it only on long trips and I can almost always tell if the tank has regular or premium based on how it accelerates when merging into the freeway, maybe its just luck, who knows. My wife puts in premium after two regular fill-ups. |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by malmon
Just came back from a long drive as well, although I did not calculate mpg, I totally agree that the extra $4 is worth it on a full tank fill-up. The acceleration is smoother with 91 octane compared with the 87 regular.
The Pilot is my wife's everyday vehicle and I drive it only on long trips and I can almost always tell if the tank has regular or premium based on how it accelerates when merging into the freeway, maybe its just luck, who knows. My wife puts in premium after two regular fill-ups.
:29: midwest? or eastcoast? |
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| malmon |
| West coast, from southern to northern CA and then back. 7 hours each way is TOO long...:) |
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| whizmo |
quote:
Originally posted by xGS
Care to share them with us?
Shell and BP-Amoco, to name just two, still put more detergent in their premium grade fuels:
[http://www.shell.us/home/content/us...about_tabs.html]
[http://www.bp.com/faq.do?categoryId...ntentId=7022073]
Pox on Shell and BP for continuing this stupid practice. I would never buy premium for extra detergent that I probably don't need.
On the energy question, I did a quick search and the only thing the sources absolutely agree on is that gasoline energy content varies more from regional, brand, sample, and climate variability than from any difference between grades. So it's an academic question, but I'll agree that perhaps premium may have, on average, some very slight advantage.
- Mark |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by EFR
the higher the octane the slower the gas burns so you get better gas milage. but, the lower the octane the bigger explosion in the combustian chamber and you get more power
That made my head hurt! |
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| youbetcha |
Do you guys really believe the Federal Trade Commission has it wrong?
"In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual."
"The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars."
"Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money "
"How can you tell if you're using the right octane level? Listen to your car's engine. If it doesn't knock when you use the recommended octane, you're using the right grade of gasoline."
"As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. "
from http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/con...utos/aut12.shtm |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by youbetcha
Do you guys really believe the Federal Trade Commission has it wrong?
Well, I bet those guys don't believe in rain dances either! ;) ;) |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by youbetcha
Do you guys really believe the Federal Trade Commission has it wrong?
"In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual."
"The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars."
"Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money "
"How can you tell if you're using the right octane level? Listen to your car's engine. If it doesn't knock when you use the recommended octane, you're using the right grade of gasoline."
"As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. "
from http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/con...utos/aut12.shtm
I actually saved $4, the cost difference and mileage using premium. I think the OM recommends premium in some situations and this is it!:1: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
I actually saved $4, the cost difference and mileage using premium. I think the OM recommends premium in some situations and this is it!:1:
Note: (just to piss off the N_Jay Haters)
The cost difference is "real". The mileage difference is "believed".
:2: :2: :2: |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Note: (just to piss off the N_Jay Haters)
The cost difference is "real". The mileage difference is "believed".
:2: :2: :2:
copied and pasted:4: :6: :6: :6: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
copied and pasted:4: :6: :6: :6:
You have been around long enough to remember some of the MPG charts people did showing a 2 to 4 MPG difference tank to tank using the same fuel.
http://www.hondapilot.org/forums/sh...&threadid=20815
So what makes a 2 to 4 MPG difference valid in your test? |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
...
continuous idling while at the rest stop, etc.
...
Just curious as to why you would do that. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
Just curious as to why you would do that.
Because the cool air from the AC is worth more the gas used. |
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| malmon |
Since there are conflicting facts on several websites about the advantages of using higher octane fuel, I suggest those doubters or those just curious to do their own experiment instead of trying to prove the conclusion wrong. It’s easy and harmless to do anyways, but I don’t think the difference is clear on ‘stop and go’ traffic, so better try it when going on long trips. Then please post your findings.
To read posts from ‘know-it-all” members who has not post their own findings and just relied on someone else’s conclusion, is like watching CNN showing Rumsfeld and Powell pointing to a map with a stick, “here are the WMD, here, here and here….” Since the data came from the government, it must be true. |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Because the cool air from the AC is worth more the gas used.
:1pat: ... and here I'm thinking the whole idea of a rest stop is to:
- get out of the car
- stretch your legs
- take a wiz
- get gas
- get something to eat / drink
- etc.
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by youbetcha
Do you guys really believe the Federal Trade Commission has it wrong?
from http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/con...utos/aut12.shtm
Good job with the link, but the only statement in there that is worth the bandwidth is "listen to your owner's manual"
Everything else is a generalization and since it's dated 2003, it's probably based on information gathered in the 90s.
20c a gallon was a 10% increase on $2/gal gas, so there's no chance that it would improve your mpg or performance enough to make up for it. Now it's less than a 5% cost increase and isn't quite the "splurge" that it used to be.
That being said - Two out of 3 of my vehicles require premium, so I'm used to hitting that button on the pump. I use 87 with the Pilot, and if I accidentally put a tank of premium in, which I have done, I don't notice any improvement in regular mixed driving. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
:1pat: ... and here I'm thinking the whole idea of a rest stop is to:
- get out of the car
- stretch your legs
- take a wiz
- get gas
- get something to eat / drink
- etc.
Maybe the kids did not want to stop the movie? |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by krygny
Just curious as to why you would do that.
:rolleyes: 1. kids inside the pilot in sweltering heat? 2. because I'm too tired to keep driving, need a rest stop not a bathroom break(been driving straight from LR to CT, CT to Buffalo, NY thru the adirondacks-in one day and CT to LR in 41/2 days 3. because I can do that after using premium:) |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
.. .I can do that after using premium:)
Yes, I have heard that premium gives you the best mileage while idling. :D
:2: :2: |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
There are conflicting STATEMENTS on web sites on just about every single topic.
STATEMENTS on web sites are not FACTS.
Maybe someone could post a link to a CREDITABLE website with some of these STATEMENTS that they feel should be taken as FACTS!
I'll start.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/aut...to/4264939.html
"Myth No. 3: Going Premium
The Lie: "More expensive fuel offer better fuel economy, because it's higher quality!"
The Truth: The media has confused this issue terribly. Post-1996 model-year cars virtually all have knock sensors. If the octane rating is too low, the computer will roll back the ignition timing a few degrees to compensate. This will reduce peak engine power, and also increase fuel consumption. So, in some sense, this myth gets it right—if your car is supposed to run premium. One of our long-term test cars in the PM fleet delivers an impressive 25-percent better fuel economy running on premium than it does on regular, although our test was hardly done under rigorous conditions. I'll leave the math for an exercise, but I calculate the price differential between 87- and 91-octane fuel at more like 6 percent—at least in my neighborhood. Your mileage may vary, but it's worth trying to see what happens in your car. If you top 6-percent better fuel mileage on premium, it may save you money to run it.
Of course, older cars, built in the days before knock sensors, may be damaged by running too poor a grade of fuel. Spark knock can actually burn holes in pistons, so burn substandard fuel in non-knock-sensor-equipped cars at your peril.
But wait, there's more! Is your car supposed to run on Regular? There are more BTUs (energy) in regular than in higher grades. You may very well get better miles-per-gallon from regular. "
Thanks! it actually answered their own question/test= one of their test fleet cars gets 25% better mileage with premium and after doing the math, it actually saves money to run it
:4: :4: :4: :4: |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermiler
You might want to cross that one off the list if you're arguing that octane has nothing to do with mpg.
"..Toyota has measured slight differences in efficiency due to octane number even when knock is not an issue " |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
One of our long-term test cars in the PM fleet delivers an impressive 25-percent better fuel economy running on premium than it does on regular, although our test was hardly done under rigorous conditions.
The more rigorous test was suggested.
When are you starting on it? |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
STATEMENTS on web sites are not FACTS.
I'll start.
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Yes, I have heard that premium gives you the best mileage while idling. :D
:2: :2:
:2: fixed! |
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| jcantanixon |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
The more rigorous test was suggested.
When are you starting on it?
*He* doesn't have to. *His* initial test findings were good enough to satisfy *him*.
If you'd like to see some rigorous testing before you'll believe, then you might consider that a personal task. I don't think anyone on here will ever list convincing you of something as a short or long term goal.
Since I prefer to believe another contributing user in his reasonable conclusions rather than blindly discrediting his findings, I'd say that it's great that he's found a way to save a little on *his* driving cost. However, neither my 05 or my 08 has displayed any noticeable change in mpg with 91, so I'll just continue to run 87.
Isn't this why "YMMV" is such a well known disclaimer?;) |
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| bigdadi |
I will try out a couple of tanks on premium gas and see the difference & mileage comparing regular unleaded gas. Will report back here.
have 08 VP 4x4 my 2 tanks of regular gas had 15mpg city driving (my regular driving behavior). I changed the drive behavior with speed limits & taking it easy approach in current tank, seems it's helping on mpg in first halful already. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
"..Toyota has measured slight differences in efficiency due to octane number even when knock is not an issue "
Which way?? :confused:
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
You might want to cross that one off the list if you're arguing that octane has nothing to do with mpg.
I might want to wait. :4: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
*He* doesn't have to. *His* initial test findings were good enough to satisfy *him*.
But should that satisfy others?
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
If you'd like to see some rigorous testing before you'll believe, then you might consider that a personal task.
No thanks. I KNOW that any mileage test I could run during my normal driving has sufficient uncontrollable variables to be invalid.
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
I don't think anyone on here will ever list convincing you of something as a short or long term goal.
Good. They should be more interested in finding facts, not building myths.
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
Since I prefer to believe another contributing user in his reasonable conclusions rather than blindly discrediting his findings, I'd say that it's great that he's found a way to save a little on *his* driving cost.
Sounds good. Did he try recording mileage with and without first doing a rain dance? The results could be convincing.
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
However, neither my 05 or my 08 has displayed any noticeable change in mpg with 91, so I'll just continue to run 87.
Sorry to hear that your Pilot is not magic like his.
quote:
Originally posted by jcantanixon
Isn't this why "YMMV" is such a well known disclaimer?;)
Yes, but not "YFMV" (Your Facts May Vary) |
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| malmon |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
There are conflicting STATEMENTS on web sites on just about every single topic.
STATEMENTS on web sites are not FACTS.
If you go to the website links, they are being presented as facts. Its up to you whether to believe or not. |
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| youbetcha |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Note: (just to piss off the N_Jay Haters)
The cost difference is "real". The mileage difference is "believed".
:2: :2: :2:
Agree. It would be impossible to measure this. My gas mileage differs by more than this from one tank to the next, and I would swear nothing about the two tanks of gas was different. Same trips, same gas. |
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| youbetcha |
OK, I'll continue to entertain everyone, here is one post from a SHELL site and another from EXXON. We can all agree that they would promote whatever they could to sell gas. But neither say "use our higher octane gas because you will see an increaese in fuel economy or power in a normally operating engine designed for lower octane."
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http://www.shell.com/home/content/c...oline_tips.html
"Firstly, keep in mind that a gasoline’s octane rating is simply a measurement of the fuel’s ability to resist engine knocking. It does not refer to a substance or to the quantity of energy or power in the fuel. More correctly, an octane rating is often called an “anti-knock index”. "
"Engines in vehicles built for sale in North America are designed to a specified octane requirement to make sure they don't knock or ping (engine knocking reduces the amount of power it can deliver to turn the wheels). Once that octane level has been met, in normal instances your car will not experience more power or better mileage if you use a higher octane fuel. "
"In other words, if your Canadian vehicle owner's manual specifies an octane rating of 87, running on gasoline with an octane rating of 89 or 91 or more will normally not make a difference. "
" ... if the owner’s manual specifies using gasoline with an octane rating of 89 or 91, then that’s what you should use because that’s what the engine is designed and tuned for"
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http://www.exxon.com/USA-English/GF...asoline_FAQ.asp
"Why should I use your premium gasoline (91-93 octane) instead of regular (87) or midgrade (89)?
To find out what octane your engine needs, first check your owner's manual. The recommended level is often 87 octane. Some models have high compression engines which are designed to utilize the octane levels of 89, 91 or higher.
Ordinarily, your vehicle will not benefit from using a higher octane than is recommended in the owner's manual. But if your engine knocks or pings at the recommended octane level, you may need a higher octane gasoline to prevent the knock. Knocking may occur under certain conditions. A small percentage of vehicles may knock because of variations in engines of the same model due to manufacturing tolerances, or because of an unusual build-up of engine deposits during the first 15,000 miles of driving. Other factors such as extremely hot weather, changes in altitude or hard driving conditions (like towing a heavy load) may also cause knocking.
Many modern vehicles are equipped with an electronic device that detects and eliminates light knocking before you hear it. The devices suppress knock by retarding the spark. We believe that some of these vehicles may experience some deterioration of acceleration performance, without knocking, when operating under high engine demand conditions. "
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Everyone asleep yet? :o |
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| youbetcha |
| If your Pilot is benefiting from higher octane gas (and you're not towing a boat on the highway in 90 degree heat or something), then you should get your car checked out. It may be something is wrong, or you have engine deposits. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by youbetcha
Agree. It would be impossible to measure this. My gas mileage differs by more than this from one tank to the next, and I would swear nothing about the two tanks of gas was different. Same trips, same gas.
Careful or you will anger the Octane Gods, and then they will curse your car into not delivering better mileage with premium. It's too late for me, but you still have a chance. |
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