| rsbell |
I just had the remote start installed on my 2009 Pilot w/Touring, and have run across what appears to be a completely stupid issue:
I can start the engine with the remote fine (VERY handy in 100+ degree heat here), but I cannot unlock the doors while the engine is running! So, if I want to actually get in the car, I HAVE TO TURN OFF THE ENGINE, then unlock the doors!
What's the point?!
Am I missing something, or did I just waste $1,000 on a completely useless item??!! |
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| MK23666 |
Can you bypass it with the key to open the door?
Maybe this is a second layer of safety to prevent someone from stealing the vehicle while it is running cause I'm sure there is a primary safety feature that has to deal with the lack of a key in the ignition. |
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| rsbell |
quote:
Originally posted by MK23666
Can you bypass it with the key to open the door?
Maybe this is a second layer of safety to prevent someone from stealing the vehicle while it is running cause I'm sure there is a primary safety feature that has to deal with the lack of a key in the ignition.
The remote will not unlock the doors while the engine is running. Manually unlocking the doors with the key turns the engine off.
The engine cannot be started unless the doors are locked, so there is no danger of someone stealing the vehicle. The only thing I can think of is that if the doors could be unlocked while the engine is running, then the vehicle could conceivably be driven without the ignition key since the car would be running already.
It really seems to defeat the purpose of the remote start function...
:28: |
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| Medic721 |
Bring it back to the installer. They will have to look up the specific application and provide a 'work around' that allows you to unlock the doors after a start. it may require a new remote instead of using the one on the key.
-Mike. |
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| krygny |
quote:
Originally posted by rsbell
...
What's the point?!
Am I missing something, or did I just waste $1,000 on a completely useless item??!!
That's why, what I really want is Remote Control. That way, I can completely avoid ever getting in the car at all. :19: |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by rsbell
I just had the remote start installed on my 2009 Pilot w/Touring, and have run across what appears to be a completely stupid issue:
. . .
Am I missing something, or did I just waste $1,000 on a completely useless item??!!
Let me guess.
It is an aftermarket remote start (because I don't believe Honda sells on), as such it is completely up to the installer as to how well or how poorly it works. |
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| deparson |
Honda dealers do sell one but I am not sure what brand the hardware is; not Honda I am sure.
But, for $1000 they owe you a fully functioning system!!
I recall the 2007 Toyota factory installed remote starts forced you to turn off the car and restart it in order to drive it. Really stupid design but it some how made it to market.
In our T&C the remote start works just as it should. When you remote start the doors all lock but you can unlock them from the key fob. When you are ready to go you just put the key fob in the receiver and go. The DVD system even starts playing when you remote start so the kids can watch whatever they are watching before you are all in and the key is in the receiver. |
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| sblvro |
| it depends on the brand and its capabilities. I installed a compustar on my 6-speed manual evo and you can do either remote start or turbo timer or both. with the turbo timer, you actually have to lock the doors using the remote and with just the remote start, it locks it for you automatically as soon as you close the door. so, it is probably an install issue. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by deparson
Honda dealers do sell one but I am not sure what brand the hardware is; not Honda I am sure.
I don't care if dealers sell it.
If it is aftermarket, then it is aftermarket.
$1000 is ridiculous. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by NJGuy
Honda does sell an OEM remote start system, part number 08E92-SZA-100. College Hills Honda has it on their website.
According to their FAQ, the Honda system shuts off the engine when the doors are unlocked. This is for "additional security and safety" :rolleyes: .
see the links below:
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/ho...accessories.htm
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/in...otestartfaq.pdf
Interesting.
Most systems shut off the engine if you attempt to put them in gear without the key in the ignition.
Seems like a poorly thought out solution.
Wonder if it was rushed to market.
Tim, Thoughts?? |
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| lizzy40 |
quote:
Originally posted by rsbell
I just had the remote start installed on my 2009 Pilot w/Touring, and have run across what appears to be a completely stupid issue:
I can start the engine with the remote fine (VERY handy in 100+ degree heat here), but I cannot unlock the doors while the engine is running! So, if I want to actually get in the car, I HAVE TO TURN OFF THE ENGINE, then unlock the doors!
What's the point?!
Am I missing something, or did I just waste $1,000 on a completely useless item??!!
That doesnt make sense that you can not unlock the doors. I have a viper alarm with remote start and I can start the car whether or not the doors are locked of unlocked and I can unlock or lock the doors while is is running in remote start mode. That is weird that yours is like that. |
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| lizzy40 |
| Oh and my whole system.... Alarm system with remote start only cost $600 |
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| waahuu |
I checked into remote start when I bought the Pilot. The salesperson explained that the Honda remote start does what you describe, turns off engine when you try to get into the car. For that reason this dealer was installing Audiovox remote start for about $500 to $600. They quoted me a price of $800 installed for the Honda system.
I wouldn't say that what you have is a total loss, it still allows you to cool off or warm up the car before you get into it, its just a pain in the .... to start the car again. |
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| ED27 |
quote:
Originally posted by rsbell
The remote will not unlock the doors while the engine is running. Manually unlocking the doors with the key turns the engine off.
The engine cannot be started unless the doors are locked, so there is no danger of someone stealing the vehicle. The only thing I can think of is that if the doors could be unlocked while the engine is running, then the vehicle could conceivably be driven without the ignition key since the car would be running already.
It really seems to defeat the purpose of the remote start function...
:28:
Does your remote look like this? |
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| Josey92 |
I have an Audiovox Prestige system in my 06 and it works perfectly. I don't know anything about how the Honda system is setup so I can't comment about it.
I do know that most remote systems require a "dummy key" (as stated by my/dealer's installer) that's programmed for your vehicle but has does not have the grooves. This was placed in an undisclosed location (under the dash somewhere) so that when you have started the vehicle remotely, all the functions of the both fobs are operational. Don't know the specifics, but you might want to ask about that. Both my 03 and 06 were setup this way. |
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| rsbell |
quote:
Originally posted by ED27
Does your remote look like this?
Yes, this is the remote. Only 1 remote included, btw...:rolleyes:
Thanks for everyone's input.
The idea was to start the car and have it cooling off in the summer heat while I (ok, my wife, more likely!) put my 7 mo. old son in the car. But, the remote only works from a maximum of 200', which means that in practice we will have to start the engine, walk the 20 seconds it takes to traverse the 200' (not long enough to really cool down the car), then turn the car off to open the door and put him in the car.
Ok, it's my bad for nor clarifying with the salesperson the actual use of the remote start, but I didn't think I would have to...:3: |
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| donnieo |
I just purchased a 2008 Pilot. I wanted an remote start so I went to a couple of installers. They all had the same story. If I had it installed, they could use the original Honda key and reprogram the buttons. But, I would not be able to open the door with the engine running. I would have to shut it off, open the door and re-start the engine. PITA
The work around is to purchase a module (about $100) and use a new fob and the valet key instead of the key with the buttons. Total price, under $400.
Not what I was looking for, unless someone has another idea. |
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| wcarm |
I don't mean to be rude but, and maybe I am missing something here...you guys are complaining about a feature of a system designed to keep someone from driving off with your $30k-40k vehicle? Or at the very least, slow them down???
All that extra effort of putting the key in the ignition and starting the car? Must be rough...
I'm not sure about your neck of the woods, but up here in the Pacific Northwest, every fall the news is filled with stories of cars being stolen while being warmed up...so much so that it is illegal in Seattle to warm your car up.
I can't imagine Seattle is the only city that has this problem...
Sorry for being a jerk, but of all the things to complain about! What is a bigger hassle? Having to turn your car of for 30 seconds while you get into it...you have to push a button to get in it either way (unless you leave it running and unlocked), OR, filling out a police report, dealing with your insurance company, being late to work or whatever appointment you may have had, getting a rental car, possibly getting your car back trashed (but not totaled, so you have to wait for it to be fixed).
Personally, I think it is a real PITA that I have to do anything to start my car...turn a key or push a button...the darn thing should just know that I want it to start, and start! And pressing those darn pedals...it should just KNOW when it is supposed to go, and when it is supposed to stop!
:rolleyes: |
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| deparson |
When correctly done a remote start system does not disable the computer chip lock out. Without the key in the car the car does not move even if it is running.
quote:
Originally posted by wcarm
I don't mean to be rude but, and maybe I am missing something here...you guys are complaining about a feature of a system designed to keep someone from driving off with your $30k-40k vehicle? Or at the very least, slow them down???
All that extra effort of putting the key in the ignition and starting the car? Must be rough...
I'm not sure about your neck of the woods, but up here in the Pacific Northwest, every fall the news is filled with stories of cars being stolen while being warmed up...so much so that it is illegal in Seattle to warm your car up.
I can't imagine Seattle is the only city that has this problem...
Sorry for being a jerk, but of all the things to complain about! What is a bigger hassle? Having to turn your car of for 30 seconds while you get into it...you have to push a button to get in it either way (unless you leave it running and unlocked), OR, filling out a police report, dealing with your insurance company, being late to work or whatever appointment you may have had, getting a rental car, possibly getting your car back trashed (but not totaled, so you have to wait for it to be fixed).
Personally, I think it is a real PITA that I have to do anything to start my car...turn a key or push a button...the darn thing should just know that I want it to start, and start! And pressing those darn pedals...it should just KNOW when it is supposed to go, and when it is supposed to stop!
:rolleyes:
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| donnieo |
WCARM
With a normal remote start, you can start the car from in the house, work, etc. It can't be driven as the steering wheel is still locked. If you attempt to put the car in gear without first putting the key into the ignition and turning it, the engine will shut off as soon as you touch the brake pedal. When it's running, a button on the remote will unlock the door. Once inside, you just put the key into the ignition and turn it to start, and drive off. No need to restart the engine.
Th problem we are having is when a remote start added to the Pilot, the button to unlock the door is disabled. You have to shut off the engine, open the door, then restart the engine. |
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| lizzy40 |
quote:
Originally posted by wcarm
I don't mean to be rude but, and maybe I am missing something here...you guys are complaining about a feature of a system designed to keep someone from driving off with your $30k-40k vehicle? Or at the very least, slow them down???
All that extra effort of putting the key in the ignition and starting the car? Must be rough...
I'm not sure about your neck of the woods, but up here in the Pacific Northwest, every fall the news is filled with stories of cars being stolen while being warmed up...so much so that it is illegal in Seattle to warm your car up.
I can't imagine Seattle is the only city that has this problem...
Sorry for being a jerk, but of all the things to complain about! What is a bigger hassle? Having to turn your car of for 30 seconds while you get into it...you have to push a button to get in it either way (unless you leave it running and unlocked), OR, filling out a police report, dealing with your insurance company, being late to work or whatever appointment you may have had, getting a rental car, possibly getting your car back trashed (but not totaled, so you have to wait for it to be fixed).
Personally, I think it is a real PITA that I have to do anything to start my car...turn a key or push a button...the darn thing should just know that I want it to start, and start! And pressing those darn pedals...it should just KNOW when it is supposed to go, and when it is supposed to stop!
:rolleyes:
Your car cant be stollen in the remote start mode. It has a "kill" feature that if you get in and push the brake with out having the exact key with the exact chip in it and also put the key in the #2 possition "on" possition before hitting the brake then the car just "dies" !!!! and you can not restart it without the correct key and I know this function works because I have done it a few times accidiently, ha,ha. so you can leave your car unlocked if you wish in remote start mode (though I do not) and everything in it can get stolen but your car will not !!!!! I personally love being able to remote start my car (with the doors locked) and when my kids need to get in the car all I have to do is push the unlock button from inside the house and they can get in without me having to leave my house till I am ready to go out there and then I can relock it from the house too. Call me lazy if you wish but sometimes when it is freezing outside or you just plain arnt ready to go out there yet it is quite the handy little feature. Ya I could have had the one that they use a module and all the factory key settings for around $200 but I chose the Viper one with remote start and paid $600 because I loved all the extra features and things you can do with it that you couldnt do with the other one. If that is being lazy then hey I am all for it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| Spitz |
While I understand the convenience of these systems what I am having a hard time understanding is why none of you keep your Pilot in the garage. Mine stays in the garage and it is always about 70 degrees when I get in it whether it is 90 or 30 outside.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but this has always been a mystery to me and I would like to understand why people have a garage but don't use it. Every house in my neighborhood has at least a two car garage (some have 3 car garages) and maybe 5% of them keep their cars inside. Very weird to me! |
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| Josey92 |
quote:
Originally posted by Spitz
While I understand the convenience of these systems what I am having a hard time understanding is why none of you keep your Pilot in the garage. Mine stays in the garage and it is always about 70 degrees when I get in it whether it is 90 or 30 outside.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but this has always been a mystery to me and I would like to understand why people have a garage but don't use it. Every house in my neighborhood has at least a two car garage (some have 3 car garages) and maybe 5% of them keep their cars inside. Very weird to me!
Here are some answers:
1) 2 cars -- 1-car garage
2) too many cars (nice to have this problem)
3) no garage (yes, there are people that have no garages -- especially in urban areas)
I know this may not answer the question about your neighbors, but these are answers to some of us in other situations.
Hope this helps. |
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| Medic721 |
forgot one.
not all garages are climate controlled or attached to the house maintaining 70 deg. My garage is separate from the house and is pretty darn close to the outside temp if not warmer in summer months.
I loved the remote start in my Jeep. I keep thinking about putting one in my Pilot but I want to keep the factory key. I know reduced range etc.... we'll see. and with gas prices going up I try to keep it running as little as possible.
-Mike. |
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| Itchy |
Toyota's remote start on the 07+ Tundra has the same lousy saftety feature of shutting off the engine when opening door. It also covers a whopping 80 feet and requires you to take apart the entire lower dash. All this is covered in their 36 page manual.
Workaround is to get aftermarket with far better range and will not shut off engine upon opening door. |
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by lizzy40
Your car cant be stolen in the remote start mode.
after installing a remote star in my car, it actually makes it easier to steal it because the transponder/chip is already inside the car and you just have to know how to power it up. if you know how to power it up, you know how to wire the starter wire and ignition too. Keeping the key with you OR providing different stage or levels of security in the alarm is crucial in preventing this from happening, like perimeter sensor, glass breakage sensor, impact sensor, etc. |
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| lizzy40 |
quote:
Originally posted by Spitz
While I understand the convenience of these systems what I am having a hard time understanding is why none of you keep your Pilot in the garage. Mine stays in the garage and it is always about 70 degrees when I get in it whether it is 90 or 30 outside.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but this has always been a mystery to me and I would like to understand why people have a garage but don't use it. Every house in my neighborhood has at least a two car garage (some have 3 car garages) and maybe 5% of them keep their cars inside. Very weird to me!
I dont have a garage... only a carport otherwise mine would be garaged. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
after installing a remote star in my car, it actually makes it easier to steal it because the transponder/chip is already inside the car and you just have to know how to power it up. if you know how to power it up, you know how to wire the starter wire and ignition too. Keeping the key with you OR providing different stage or levels of security in the alarm is crucial in preventing this from happening, like perimeter sensor, glass breakage sensor, impact sensor, etc.
Two different issues.
1) Can installing a remote start make you car easier to steal.
Probably because one way or another it bypasses the requirement for the key to be in the car to start the engine.
However, the person needs to know how the particular system is wired to take advantage of the changes.
2) can you steal the started car easily. Probably not. Whether it shuts off when you unlock the door or when you put it in gear, either way the thief will be sitting in a non running car.
As for me, I don't worry about my car being stolen, but I also don't have nor really see the need for a remote starter. |
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| Shindig78 |
I'm not convinced that Honda had security in mind when they designed the remote start so that you have to turn off the engine before unlocking the door. This is an excellent case study for terrible usability, and it looks to me like Honda simply did not think through how a real consumer would use the system.
It seems that roles have reversed here -- every rental Impala I have had in the past year has had a remote starter that is easy to use, has a cabin temp sensor that automatically switches the car to full heat or full AC depending on the weather, and lets you open the doors and trunk without turning the engine off. In fact, when the car is in remote start mode, the gauges and radio are off. Once you put the key in the ignition, everything returns to normal and you're ready to drive away. GM has obviously done their homework. Why can't Honda design an equally useful alternative? |
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| deparson |
The Chrysler factory starters work the same way. Totally integrated and they work exactly how the driver would think they should work.
quote:
Originally posted by Shindig78
I'm not convinced that Honda had security in mind when they designed the remote start so that you have to turn off the engine before unlocking the door. This is an excellent case study for terrible usability, and it looks to me like Honda simply did not think through how a real consumer would use the system.
It seems that roles have reversed here -- every rental Impala I have had in the past year has had a remote starter that is easy to use, has a cabin temp sensor that automatically switches the car to full heat or full AC depending on the weather, and lets you open the doors and trunk without turning the engine off. In fact, when the car is in remote start mode, the gauges and radio are off. Once you put the key in the ignition, everything returns to normal and you're ready to drive away. GM has obviously done their homework. Why can't Honda design an equally useful alternative?
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| sblvro |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Two different issues.
1) Can installing a remote start make you car easier to steal.
Probably because one way or another it bypasses the requirement for the key to be in the car to start the engine.
However, the person needs to know how the particular system is wired to take advantage of the changes.
honda or other installers would have the same wiring codes and therefore somebody who wants to steal would know this firsthand and not your regular hit and run type or vandals.
2) can you steal the started car easily. Probably not. Whether it shuts off when you unlock the door or when you put it in gear, either way the thief will be sitting in a non running car.
As for me, I don't worry about my car being stolen, but I also don't have nor really see the need for a remote starter.
A car that is already running can be easily stolen that is why shutting the engine down when you open the door is just one way to prevent that though inconvenientfor the owner. If you want to be able to keep the engine running, then you have to have other levels of protection such as mentioned shock sensors, perimeter sensors, ultrasound in-cabin sensors, glass breakage sensors which when triggered would trigger the alarm and automatically shuts off the car, disconnect the ignition, starter kill etc. |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
honda or other installers would have the same wiring codes and therefore somebody who wants to steal would know this firsthand and not your regular hit and run type or vandals.
I did not know that every single aftermarket (and factory) remote start kit and immobilizer bypass uses the exact same connections.
quote:
Originally posted by sblvro
A car that is already running can be easily stolen that is why shutting the engine down when you open the door is just one way to prevent that though inconvenientfor the owner. If you want to be able to keep the engine running, then you have to have other levels of protection such as mentioned shock sensors, perimeter sensors, ultrasound in-cabin sensors, glass breakage sensors which when triggered would trigger the alarm and automatically shuts off the car, disconnect the ignition, starter kill etc.
IO thought almost every single remote start kit that is properly installed includes the requirement to use the key or will shut down the engine.
Wow, as I have said many times, "You learn something new every day"!
Thanks sblvro! |
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| afs12065 |
Here is the PDF install guide with post-installation checks:
http://www.collegehillshonda.com/in...remotestart.pdf
It appears as though that by design the engine does stop when the doors are unlocked in the default configuration per the description on pg. 20. Its hard to imagine how some of those things would happen (pressing the brake pedal or putting the key in the ignition?) unless you used the remote start to start the vehicle while you were already inside - so some of these instructions are strange.
Note, however, that there are six on/off switches on the control unit. The install guide doesn't specify in detail what each of these does but it may be possible to adjust these so that the engine does not shut off when the doors are unlocked. You could check with your dealer or experiment with those settings. The system needs to be "rebooted" per the instructions after changing those switches though before the settings take effect... kinda like Microsoft Windoze. |
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| sewers |
| see $250 refund thread |
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| youbetcha |
I don't understand why security is a concern with a remote starter.
How are you going to steal a car if you can't get it out of park and the steering wheel is still locked? Don't you need to physically turn the key to the "on" position in order to do either? |
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| pesto126 |
This is very interesting.. I have a factory installed AutoMate remote starter. It works as I would think you'd want it to.. double-click red star on keyfob to start the car.. it starts the car and locks the doors after about 10 seconds.. However, when I click the unlock key on the keyfob, the doors unlock and the car remains running. I insert key 1/2 way and giddy-up!
If I step on the break before the key is put in, the car shuts off....
Never really thought about it before reading this thread.. guess I got lucky with my dealer and the remote starters they were using.
BTW.. I negotiated it into the price of the car but it was quoted on sticker as $475.. looks like I got a better deal than I originally thought! |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by pesto126
This is very interesting.. I have a factory installed AutoMate remote starter.
Wow, I did not know the FACTORY installed AutoMate equipment? |
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| fsu91 |
One way a remote starter would make the vehicle easier to steal would be if you were using one of the older style bypass modules since these require the use of a key (usually you valet key). If a car thief knew you had a remote starter he could simple break into the car (wouldn't have to even be running) and look under the dash for the bypass module. Since the wiring colors are pretty much standard, he could just trace the correct wire to the module. Once he found it, he could just remove the key, put it in the ignition, and drive away.
The newer bypass modules are more secure since they don't use a key. You simply program them with the key in the ignition the first time and the transponder code is stored electronically in flash memory. In theory, the thief could ground out the newer bypass module to force it to transmit the code and use a key without a transponder chip to start the car, but he would need to have the correct key cut.
In reality, no matter what you do you're not going to stop a professional car thief who really wants your car. They do this for a living and know how to bypass alarms and ignition devices quickly. If needed, they could just hook up a tow truck and tow it away. |
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| citivas |
My dealer is giving the units described here (the OP's unit shown in the later picture) for FREE. So I have the option to install it for free. Is it worth it? Is there a downside?
I'm not sure how often I'll be able to use it since I keep it in a garage (which does get cold in the winter, but I'm hardly going to start spewing exhaust into the garage with the door closed) and the range isn't good enough to use from the train on my commute home. I can see in the winter getting the extra 200 feet of heater / defrost start waling to it from the train (after it has been out in sub-20 degree whether all day), but if it shuts off the engine when I get there I'm not sure it isn't worse for the car than 1 clean start when I arrive. |
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| ocwill1 |
I do not have remote on Pilot, since it is in garage, but I do have remote start on my truck that sits out side in driveway because it is too big to fit in garage.. It works the way it should.. You can start it while locked, unlock after started, get in and put the key in ignition... If you put foot on break before key in, it cuts out.. The radio does not come on until key is in ignition.. The only way you would know it was on is the parking lights come on and the Magnaflow exhaust... CompuStar is the brand I have.... Can start from about a mile away...
willie |
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| acibrix |
| Would an installation of a remote start (non honda) void the honda warranty? |
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| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by acibrix
Would an installation of a remote start (non honda) void the honda warranty?
Yes, No, Maybe.
It could for the parts of the car changed or connected to, but not for the rest of the car. |
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