| rlapid |
| with gas prices continuing to rise, i've been looking into diesel. i'm not too familiar with diesel fuel, as i've never owned a diesel vehicle before, so bear with me. i noticed that 'top tier' or 'premium' gas stations like chevron charge more for their diesel fuel than discount gas stations, just like they do with unleaded fuel. are additives like techron or v-power added to their diesel which makes it superior? or is all diesel the same? |
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| sjlee |
Are there any diesels currently on the market that meet CA-state emissions?
That being said, are the vehicles you're looking at get sufficiently improved gas mileage over the Pilot to offset the higher price of diesel?
Does it make financial sense to trade-in your Pilot to get a new vehicle that gets better gas mileage? In many cases, it doesn't, but I wasn't sure if you thought about it. |
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| rocky |
By the end of 2008 we'll see 50 state approved diesels from Mercedes and VW. VW expects to deliver their first vehicles before the end of summer.
Honda early to mid next year. Subaru and Nissan will follow. Wierdly no work from Toyota except in their Tundra/ Sequoia.
Ford despite having great diesels in Euro Silence. Ditto GM. Chrysler sells several of its vehicles with diesels MB or VW engines. this will probably continue |
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| macphanatic |
| I can't speak regarding the new low sulfur diesel fuel or that which is sold on the West Coast. However, the guys that run diesels in my area of PA tend to use Sunoco diesel in the colder months as it has a lower parafin content, thus it jells at a lower temperature. They are less picky during the warmer months. |
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| tfrain |
typically a diesel vehicle will get 30 -40% better mileage than a gas vehicle. So a 20mpg pilot would get between 24 and 28 mpg. Diesel is at a 25% premium. It is still more cost effective to drive a diesel as compared to a gasoline model in most instances, but it is approaching the point where it isn't. Now diesel engines are typically built more robustly just due to the nature of their ignition by compression (they have to be built heavier usually), BUT with all the emissions stuff, they cost more than a gasoline engined car, so.....
a year ago, I would have beat a door to a honda dealer for a near 30mpg diesel pilot, even at a 3 to 4K premium
Now, I just don't know.. |
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| rlapid |
quote:
[i]a year ago, I would have beat a door to a honda dealer for a near 30mpg diesel pilot, even at a 3 to 4K premium
Now, I just don't know.. [/B]
same here. a diesel pilot (or any car for that matter) would be great alternatives to hybrids and E85... |
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| whizmo |
Only one person so far has come remotely close to addressing the OP's original question; the rest have spun off into the tangent on whether diesel is cost effective which wasn't the question. You guys should get into politics.
I have no hard info about the quality differences between brands of diesel, but I suspect it is like gasoline - there are some differences, but in most cases, they're VERY minor.
- Mark |
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| mikey159 |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Only one person so far has come remotely close to addressing the OP's original question; the rest have spun off into the tangent on whether diesel is cost effective which wasn't the question. You guys should get into politics.
I have no hard info about the quality differences between brands of diesel, but I suspect it is like gasoline - there are some differences, but in most cases, they're VERY minor.
- Mark
You are correct in your assumptions. Alot of car diesel owners add a small of regular gas to each tank of fuel in the winter to keep it from freezing. That is why I was suprised to see the comment about the Sunoco diesel, I did not know they had lowered the part that freezes. I used to have a VW diesel Rabbit back in the early 80's and it was great, obviously not the low sulphur available now, so it smoked when the gas pedal was floored and the engine was powering up a long hill or whatever. Upshifting would have stopped the smoke but also gotten it out of the power range and the vehicle would have slowed down. On diesel vehicles there is also a water filter that must be drained periodically, as in every oil change is fine in most cases. During the winter you need to do it more often. The regular gasolline just made it a tiny bit thinner so it didn't freeze when the temp got cold. I live near DC and yes it froze up on me several times! |
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| colorider |
| Moved to Off-Topic |
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| sjlee |
quote:
Originally posted by tfrain
typically a diesel vehicle will get 30 -40% better mileage than a gas vehicle. So a 20mpg pilot would get between 24 and 28 mpg. Diesel is at a 25% premium. It is still more cost effective to drive a diesel as compared to a gasoline model in most instances, but it is approaching the point where it isn't. Now diesel engines are typically built more robustly just due to the nature of their ignition by compression (they have to be built heavier usually), BUT with all the emissions stuff, they cost more than a gasoline engined car, so.....
a year ago, I would have beat a door to a honda dealer for a near 30mpg diesel pilot, even at a 3 to 4K premium
Now, I just don't know..
Agreed. Until the new 50-state diesels start coming out, it's hard to say if they'll be as fuel efficient as their "smoggy" predecessors and if they'll be reliable (new emissions components).
Like hybrids, it'll be easy to determine the premium for getting diesel on models that offer both a diesel and gas engine option and figure out if it makes financial sense to buy one (i.e. increased gas mileage offsets the increased price of diesel). |
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| tfrain |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
Only one person so far has come remotely close to addressing the OP's original question; the rest have spun off into the tangent on whether diesel is cost effective which wasn't the question. You guys should get into politics.
I have no hard info about the quality differences between brands of diesel, but I suspect it is like gasoline - there are some differences, but in most cases, they're VERY minor.
- Mark
Quite right, we did not answer the specific question. However, the poster said he didn't know a lot about diesels and to bear with him. Seeing as how I don't have any info about the differences in diesel fuels, but I do have some info on the merits of diesel powered vehicles, I thought I would throw a comment out there in order to share some info so he might know a little more about them. But thanks for making the point - else his question might not have been answered!! |
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| rlapid |
| thanks everyone for the replies! yes, the thread did drift a little, but as a result, i learned more about diesel and diesel-powered vehicles. hopefully diesel has a promising future here in the US... |
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| KarenCaren |
For me, I want to have a hybrid diesel engine. But the cost of buying one is just the same like using a diesel engine. Diesel still the best gasosline to use since it is more cheaper than unleaded gasoline.
______________
A must look: Autopartswarehouse |
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| rlapid |
quote:
Originally posted by KarenCaren
For me, I want to have a hybrid diesel engine. But the cost of buying one is just the same like using a diesel engine. Diesel still the best gasosline to use since it is more cheaper than unleaded gasoline.
A hybrid diesel engine? sounds interesting. I don't think i've ever seen any cars that use one. here in CA, diesel costs quite a bit more than even premium unleaded. however, you can still save quite a bit of money driving a diesel car. i really hope honda releases their i-ctd over here... |
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| iivtecracerii |
they wont. i-CTDi is old news.
we'll be getting the new i-DTEC clean diesel engines. |
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| rlapid |
| i was on the freeway yesterday and saw a Chevron fuel tanker truck which had the answer to my original question simply stated on the side of the tank trailer: Chevron now has Techron-D added to their diesel. |
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| csimo |
quote:
Originally posted by rlapid
with gas prices continuing to rise, i've been looking into diesel. i'm not too familiar with diesel fuel, as i've never owned a diesel vehicle before, so bear with me. i noticed that 'top tier' or 'premium' gas stations like chevron charge more for their diesel fuel than discount gas stations, just like they do with unleaded fuel. are additives like techron or v-power added to their diesel which makes it superior? or is all diesel the same?
Yes, there are differences in the quality and ratings of diesel fuel. When we talk about gasoline people look at the octane rating of the fuel. Certain engines require minimum octane ratings.
When we talk about diesel fuel we look at a similar rating, but instead of octane it's the cetane rating we look for. "Regular" diesel fuel will be rated 42 - 46 cetane, but a "premium" diesel fuel will usually have a 50 cetane rating or better.
In a gasoline engine running fuel with a higher octane rating than required by the manufacturer is wasted money, but the same does not hold true for diesel fuel cetane ratings. Virtually any diesel engine will run much better on 50+ cetane fuel... it's noticable.
I don't know if the Top Tier group has a program for diesel fuel or not, but chances are that such stations have a premium diesel fuel (high cetane) available.
Unfortunately there are no federal, and few state regulations that require stations to list the cetane rating on diesel pumps like the do the octane rating on gasoline pumps.
-Joe |
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| rlapid |
| thanks for the response, csimo. from what i've learned about diesel thus far, i'm assuming that diesel costs more at top tier stations like chevron because their diesel has a higher cetane rating and additives like Techron-D, which isn't found in discount gasoline stations. its interesting how the cetane rating doesn't need to be listed on the pump. could that change if diesel becomes more popular in the US? |
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| csimo |
quote:
Originally posted by rlapid
its interesting how the cetane rating doesn't need to be listed on the pump. could that change if diesel becomes more popular in the US?
I would like to see it required to display the cetane rating. I see a few stations list it voluntarily... usually on "premium" diesel pumps.
I'll try and investigate who mandates the octane listings and what it would take to do the same for cetane ratings. Not sure if it's a law or regulation.
-Joe |
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