| Jarmbill |
If anyone has advice with regard to legal issues or about a complaint to Honda, I would certainly appreciate this.
I was recently sold a Certified Honda Pilot, 05 LX with 30K. Two issues: vehicle was advertised as Certified for weeks, though it was sitting on the back lot with a cracked windshield and torn headliner. Thus we had them "Certify" it afterwards. Seemed to be a peculiar situation as we wondered why they listed it as Certified and then they couldn't find the keys to sell it when we arrived to view it for the first time.
Here's the main issue. And I think it explains the aforementioned delay in "certification." We currently have no plates for the vehicle in the State of Texas after 4 weeks from date of purchase. Dealership has 20 days from date of sale. Moreover the dealership, as of today, cannot process the registration because they did not have the title signed over by the previous owner. There is a missing signature. The dealership divulged this when I pressed them on the delay. They are "waiting" for the previous owner to come in.
1) This was an unscrupulous move on their part: Can't sell a vehicle that you do not properly own. 2) I must wait for plates even longer, perhaps up to 6-8 weeks after the sale.
3) Is there not a potential legal liability here, as this vehicle would technically be "unregistered" to me, as the dealership cannot prove that title work is "in process" given that the date of transfer from previous owner would come after any potential accident between now and then. In essence I am driving an "unregistered" vehicle, despite the temporary plate, especially if another driver's insurance company were to press or pay for damages?
Any advice with respect to legal or liability issues and any recourse with American Honda?
Thank you. |
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| 2garfields |
| I would go back to the dealership, demand FULL REFUND, and go buy another car. If they try to B.S. you, contact your consumer affair office or state A.G. office. |
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| Jarmbill |
| I may go that route and push for a refund; however, I've sunk about 1.3K into upgrades: roof rack, transmission cooler, better tint, better tires. |
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| Sportymonk |
If that dealer was worth their salt so to speak, they would be providing you a slightly better Pilot at no charge even if they had to find it. If you bought the roof rack and transmission cooler from them, I am sure THEY WILL take care of swapping or refund. A lawyer may help you recover the cost of the tint and tires from the dealer. (Hhhmm, if it was certified, why did it need tires?)
quote:
Originally posted by Jarmbill
I may go that route and push for a refund; however, I've sunk about 1.3K into upgrades: roof rack, transmission cooler, better tint, better tires.
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| macphanatic |
| Did you pay cash or finance? If the later and you financed through the dealership, they may have serious issues if the lender were to find out. |
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| Jarmbill |
| It was provided "new" tires at certification. No major problem with that, but they were more light truck AT tires...not the best suited for our needs. Sold them locally and replaced with new (lifetime balance/warranty). |
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| gowings |
| this wasnt Goodson Honda.:mad: |
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| deparson |
In many states cars can be sold without a title as long as the seller has the legal right to own the car.
For example, in IL if you trade in a car and you don't happen to have title you sign a form that gives the dealer the right to apply for a new title in their name. This takes some time and costs the dealer some money but it does not reduce the dealers ability to sell the car.
quote:
Originally posted by Jarmbill
If anyone has advice with regard to legal issues or about a complaint to Honda, I would certainly appreciate this.
I was recently sold a Certified Honda Pilot, 05 LX with 30K. Two issues: vehicle was advertised as Certified for weeks, though it was sitting on the back lot with a cracked windshield and torn headliner. Thus we had them "Certify" it afterwards. Seemed to be a peculiar situation as we wondered why they listed it as Certified and then they couldn't find the keys to sell it when we arrived to view it for the first time.
Here's the main issue. And I think it explains the aforementioned delay in "certification." We currently have no plates for the vehicle in the State of Texas after 4 weeks from date of purchase. Dealership has 20 days from date of sale. Moreover the dealership, as of today, cannot process the registration because they did not have the title signed over by the previous owner. There is a missing signature. The dealership divulged this when I pressed them on the delay. They are "waiting" for the previous owner to come in.
1) This was an unscrupulous move on their part: Can't sell a vehicle that you do not properly own. 2) I must wait for plates even longer, perhaps up to 6-8 weeks after the sale.
3) Is there not a potential legal liability here, as this vehicle would technically be "unregistered" to me, as the dealership cannot prove that title work is "in process" given that the date of transfer from previous owner would come after any potential accident between now and then. In essence I am driving an "unregistered" vehicle, despite the temporary plate, especially if another driver's insurance company were to press or pay for damages?
Any advice with respect to legal or liability issues and any recourse with American Honda?
Thank you.
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| Jarmbill |
quote:
Originally posted by deparson
In many states cars can be sold without a title as long as the seller has the legal right to own the car.
For example, in IL if you trade in a car and you don't happen to have title you sign a form that gives the dealer the right to apply for a new title in their name. This takes some time and costs the dealer some money but it does not reduce the dealers ability to sell the car.
Yes, this sounds plausible. I wonder, however, whether selling the vehicle before having applied for, or having obtained the new title (via "the legal right to own the car") is improper. |
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| deparson |
Around here you can sell a car for which you don't have a physical title. I don't know if the dealer has to 'clear' the title is some way to verify that the former owner really had clear title, etc. I would think they would but I don't know.
quote:
Originally posted by Jarmbill
Yes, this sounds plausible. I wonder, however, whether selling the vehicle before having applied for, or having obtained the new title (via "the legal right to own the car") is improper.
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| youbetcha |
If you have a loan, how else would you be able to sell your car, if you always had to have possession of a physical title? If you have a loan on your car, then the bank has the title.
Seems you first need the cash from the buyer to pay off the loan, THEN your bank will send you the title.
Therefore, it doesn't seem that you have to have a physical title, in hand, to sell a car. |
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| Jarmbill |
quote:
Originally posted by youbetcha
If you have a loan, how else would you be able to sell your car, if you always had to have possession of a physical title? If you have a loan on your car, then the bank has the title.
Seems you first need the cash from the buyer to pay off the loan, THEN your bank will send you the title.
Therefore, it doesn't seem that you have to have a physical title, in hand, to sell a car.
Physical title does not need to be in hand when selling a vehicle. I appreciate this point, but I hadn't overlooked it; it didn't seem relevant.
My concern is not about having "title in hand" but is about legal transfer of ownership. Yes, there can be legal transfer of ownership without title in hand.
A counter example: wife trades in the family vehicle that is jointly owned by her and her husband. She signs the title over and promises to have her husband stop by the dealership to sign as well. In the meantime, the dealership sells the trade-in before he stops by. Or he balks at the deal, once his astute wife gets home. And there are other examples of when a dealership represents a sale without legal title transfer. |
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| deparson |
In the case of joint ownership the wife may not have had the right to sell the car. It depends on state laws about the sale of property jointly held.
If she could not sell without his approval then the dealership messed up by doing the deal when they knew it was not done. If he would not sign they might not have the right to resell the car. But, they would have the right to repo the new car and she would be on the hook for all costs to make it right with everyone.
quote:
Originally posted by Jarmbill
Physical title does not need to be in hand when selling a vehicle. I appreciate this point, but I hadn't overlooked it; it didn't seem relevant.
My concern is not about having "title in hand" but is about legal transfer of ownership. Yes, there can be legal transfer of ownership without title in hand.
A counter example: wife trades in the family vehicle that is jointly owned by her and her husband. She signs the title over and promises to have her husband stop by the dealership to sign as well. In the meantime, the dealership sells the trade-in before he stops by. Or he balks at the deal, once his astute wife gets home. And there are other examples of when a dealership represents a sale without legal title transfer.
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| whizmo |
At some point you need to pursue legal remedies, but I'd have the dealer give you another temp tag and then give them a deadline of a couple weeks beyond which you say you'll consult an attorney. I suspect they'll resolve this quickly - they're just not being pro-active enough.
- Mark |
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| Jarmbill |
Mark:
Yes, that will be the plan of action. I was promised that the title will be transferred by midweek.
We'll see.
Jeff |
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| 2ndhonda |
We bought a used lexus in dallas from a lexus dealership in early june. Same situation. They did not "have" the title. We signed all paper work and went out of town for two weeks. The dealer said that if for some reason the title work wasn't clean or there were problems, the contract would be voided. Everything came out ok.
Good luck |
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