| glenfabian |
I have a 2008 SeaRay Sport 195 boat that weighs 3700 pounds coupled with ShoreLandr dual axel trailer with brakes (dry), and am considering a 2009 Pilot Touring 4x4 rated at 4500 pounds. According to Owners Manual Chart on p 442, with 4 passengers, the capacity drops to 4100 pounds. The assumption of 4 people at 150 pounds each is fitting for our family (though I am not sure about the gear)!
I want to stay with a mid-size SUV since I only tow about 6-10 times per year. However one of those is a 1200 miler (over mostly flat terrain). I am considering both the Pilot and the new 2009 Kia Borrego (V6 rated at 5000 pounds). I currently own a 2004 Kia Sorento 2WD rated at 3500 pounds and just back from round tripping 1200 miles each way. Towed great, but lost a U-joint in the middle of Arkansas! I know, I overlaoded it.
Any thoughts or advise from any 2009 4x4 owners on towing a boat of this weight? |
|
|
| whizmo |
I'd strongly suggest either a Toyota 4Runner or a Nissan Pathfinder. They're in the same size class and offer comparable comfort, mileage, and utility but both are much better tow vehicles. You can coerce the Pilot to do the job, but it won't like it and you won't like driving it.
- Mark |
|
|
| citivas |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
I'd strongly suggest either a Toyota 4Runner or a Nissan Pathfinder. They're in the same size class and offer comparable comfort, mileage, and utility but both are much better tow vehicles. You can coerce the Pilot to do the job, but it won't like it and you won't like driving it.
- Mark
I disagree about them being comparable in comfort. I don't believe the Toyota 4Runner is a unibody construction (probably true of the Pathfinder too), and therefore not a CUV. That makes all the difference. I recently traded up from an Explorer to a Pilot and my wife's one requirement was no "truck" suspenson vehicle. She hated driving and riding in the Explorer and other truck-like SUV's and therefore usually avoided it like the plague. I know she is not alone in this opinion which is one of the reasons the CUV class has been so popular. Now that may not be an issue for the OP which is fine, I just wanted to clarify the point... |
|
|
| dwindle |
quote:
Originally posted by citivas
I disagree about them being comparable in comfort. I don't believe the Toyota 4Runner is a unibody construction (probably true of the Pathfinder too), and therefore not a CUV. That makes all the difference. I recently traded up from an Explorer to a Pilot and my wife's one requirement was no "truck" suspenson vehicle. She hated driving and riding in the Explorer and other truck-like SUV's and therefore usually avoided it like the plague. I know she is not alone in this opinion which is one of the reasons the CUV class has been so popular. Now that may not be an issue for the OP which is fine, I just wanted to clarify the point...
|
|
|
| dwindle |
quote:
Originally posted by dwindle
just wondering does it really make a difference with the unibody construction vs frame as found on some SUV's? and what is CUV? |
|
|
| citivas |
quote:
Originally posted by dwindle
just wondering does it really make a difference with the unibody construction vs frame as found on some SUV's? and what is CUV?
Many people think so based on the popularity of the CUV class. In theoy a company could do things to achieve the same affect without the unibody construction but probably at the expense of what helps it off-road. I haven't tried the 2008 4 Runner but I drove one a couple years ago so unless they changed it since (they may have, I have no idea) then it definitely rides rougher than the CUV's I test drove this Summer, or the Pilot I got. Not a big deal for me personally but a huge issue for my wife, and millions like her... |
|
|
| compressor |
Hi:
I've towed close to 4500 lbs with my pilot over 300 miles. No issues whatsoever; I use D3 if the transmission is hunting and premium fuel. This is documented in my Pilot's manual.
Make sure your trailer has brakes. Also you would need a transmission fluid cooler and power steering cooler.
There are some threads here that discuss this as well. Many have towed to the "limit" of the pilot without ill effect. |
|
|
| deparson |
Don't know about 09s but the 05 Runner drove and felt more like a car than the 05 Pilot.
quote:
Originally posted by dwindle
just wondering does it really make a difference with the unibody construction vs frame as found on some SUV's? and what is CUV?
|
|
|
| deparson |
All the 09 Pilots include a full towing package except for the wiring harness.
quote:
Originally posted by compressor
Hi:
I've towed close to 4500 lbs with my pilot over 300 miles. No issues whatsoever; I use D3 if the transmission is hunting and premium fuel. This is documented in my Pilot's manual.
Make sure your trailer has brakes. Also you would need a transmission fluid cooler and power steering cooler.
There are some threads here that discuss this as well. Many have towed to the "limit" of the pilot without ill effect.
|
|
|
| citivas |
quote:
Originally posted by deparson
Don't know about 09s but the 05 Runner drove and felt more like a car than the 05 Pilot.
I never drove the old Pilots but they must have made major improvements for '09 then... |
|
|
| citivas |
The 4Runner also averages a over 20 percent worse on MPG than the Pilot. Just something to keep in mind.
I have nothing against the 4Runner. It's a great vehicle for what it does and would definitely be a better hauler and way better off-roader. I am just observing that they are not comparable vehicles in a lot of ways. You just need to prioritize what's important to you. |
|
|
| deparson |
V6 or V8? And, under what conditions? Towing, hwy, city, etc.
I bet the V8 Runner gets better MPG while towing a 5k lb boat :)
quote:
Originally posted by citivas
The 4Runner also averages a over 20 percent worse on MPG than the Pilot. Just something to keep in mind.
I have nothing against the 4Runner. It's a great vehicle for what it does and would definitely be a better hauler and way better off-roader. I am just observing that they are not comparable vehicles in a lot of ways. You just need to prioritize what's important to you.
|
|
|
| citivas |
quote:
Originally posted by deparson
V6 or V8? And, under what conditions? Towing, hwy, city, etc.
I bet the V8 Runner gets better MPG while towing a 5k lb boat :)
I bet your right. Which, again, is why you have to prioritize your uses. It I towed a LOT, to make that relevant, I would probably want a 4Runner or it's peers. |
|
|
| whizmo |
Certainly, there are some ride/handling/NVH tradeoffs with a traditional SUV like a 4Runner vs. a CUV like a Pilot, but keep in mind that a Pilot is not a Murano or X5 - it's pretty big/clunky and SUV'ish as CUV's go.
If you're not towing or only doing light-duty towing (under 2K lbs and/or infrequently and/or for short trips/flat-terrain), then I think the overall balance tilts towards the Pilot. But taking your 4-person family with all their gear and 3700-lb boat (which probably grows to 5K+ with trailer and all the gear) 6-10 times a year at distances up to 1200 miles is HEAVY-DUTY TOWING in anybody's book. I think if you pencil it out realistically, it is flat impossible to do it and stay within the Pilot's published limits. Now those limits have some fudge factor and if you drive conservatively I'm sure you can make it, but you won't have very good safety margins nor will it be a comfortable trip.
Ideally you want a Tahoe or Sequoia to do these sorts of trips effortlessly, but if you're going to compromise between the towing mission and the day-to-day driving mission by getting a mid-sized SUV, then you want one that is a heck of a lot better tower than the Pilot. Just my opinion but I'lll say it again: With the gutless V6, lack of a D4 position on the tranny, unibody, and soft springs, the Pilot is the lousiest towing vehicle in its class.
As far a the tradeoffs in terms of ride/handling, I'd suggest test driving both the 4Runner and the Pathfinder and see what you think. You may be surprised.
What would be ideal is to drive a V8 4Runner and a Pilot back-to-back with the loads you're planning on carrying. That's impossible, but honestly, the difference is like night and day.
- Mark |
|
|
| citivas |
I hate to keep picking at this because that's not my goal, but can you clarify why you think the Pilot has the worst towing "in its class"?
It's class being other large CUV's, like the Highlander, CX-9, Arcadia, Ford Flex, XC90, MDX, X-5, etc. Many of the these vehicles have substantially lower towing capacity (2,000-3,500) and some don't even have true 4WD and no driver ability to manually engage it even at lower gears.
The 4Runner would be a different class, mid-sized 4WD SUV's, which is apples-to-oranges. Totally different type of vehicle, with mostly a different consumer. If you were comparing the Pilot to this different class, you're probably right. |
|
|
| rocky |
The 09 Pilot has clearly been developed with towing as part of the specs from the get go rather than an afterthought as it was with the first gen Pilot.
Its not clear to me how many people you are taking on this trip, but if its just 4, why not go with the Ridgeline with its high towing capacity and bigger trunk space?
If more than 4, go with the 09. But consider doing a tranny fluid change at half the recommended mileage. Its cheaper than a new transmission. |
|
|
| ponowwing88 |
I towed a travel trailer from San Francisco to Yellowstone in July without too much problems. My trailer weighed about 3,400 pound. I was carrying 4 passengers, a generator and a bunch of camping gears.. On the freeway I was going 62 mph, and except on flat and downslope highway, I was mostly on D3 drive. There was a very steep mountain pass near Yellowstone that I went down to 1st gear for about 3 miles. Downshifted to 2nd gear a few times, but not a big deal as I was able to keep up with most of the traffic on the mountain road. Towing a boat (though a little heavier than my trailer) should be just as easy since it is a lower profile and not as top heavy. I found that going over 50 mph, the wind was a major factor.
Last spring, I towed my same trailer with my 1998 Ford Explorer (also 4x4) to Vancouver and I felt the 2009 Pilot was a more comfortable, relaxing drive. The Explorer had 200 hp, and the Pilot had 250 hp, and it helped somewhat.
The 2009 Pilot Touting comes with prewired trailer harness which is a super convenience. All you have to do is splice the pig tail provided by Honda to your brake controller. Please note that Honda hides the brake controller connector behind the side kich panel.
One thing I like about the 2009 Pilot is the rear view camera. After a couple of practices, I was able to back up the hitch ball right under the trailer hitch by myself.
Overall, I was happy with the Pilot, especially on very long trips...the extra comfort was worth it. I notice that the 2009 Pilot is wider track than most SUVs and that helps with keeping the car from swaying too much. On the other hand, I was hoping that Honda would make it possible to manually downshift to 4th gear, instead of 3rd gear. |
|
|
| mailmanwes |
when i first got our 09 i thought back up camera was an ok thing
but when i first hooked up our camper:) :) :) |
|
|
| dustino8 |
quote:
Originally posted by whizmo
the Pilot is the lousiest towing vehicle in its class.
Like citivas, I also disagree with this statement. I'd bet its just as competent as most of the other CUV's that citivas listed. I do a fair amount of towing with my 2003, including a boat thats 2500lbs loaded and a trailer thats 4000lbs loaded. Yes I realize I'm over the 3500lb trailer limit, but thats for another discussion. The Pilot is very stable with the trailer. I've pulled it through some very strong sidewinds withount any sign of sway or instability.
Yes, the lack of 4th gear lockout is a fault, as is its relatively short wheelbase for its size, but the unibody and softer independent suspension are not necessarily faults. I have read on other forums and magazine articles that an independant suspension actually benefits towing stability.
I'm not claiming that the Pilot is a better tow vehicle than a 4Runner or Sequoia, but I think its a good tow vehicle for what its rated for. |
|
|
| rlapid |
quote:
Originally posted by deparson
Don't know about 09s but the 05 Runner drove and felt more like a car than the 05 Pilot.
i've ridden in an 07 runner and i'd have to say, the ride quality was definitely not more carlike than the pilot. for a unibody suv, it does have a very smooth ride, but bumps and irregularities in the road were much more pronounced than in the pilot. the runner is also rear-wheel-drive, which makes it feel more like a truck, imo. i have owned a 4runner in the past and absolutely loved it. as stated in an earlier post, it all depends on what your needs are. if you need a vehicle that can tow heavier loads, can handle heavy-duty off-roading, and a more traditional truck-like feel, go for the runner. if you're looking for increased seating capacity, great ride comfort, and light-medium duty towing/off-roading, go for the pilot. good luck! |
|
|
| ONIJDM |
We've towed lots of heavy weight with the 2009 Pilot without problems and lots of power on tap... avg 15-20L/100kms
1) Pilot, 2 persons, tires, 4 wheel trailer, Skyline GTR (3500 lbs)
2) Pilot, 4 persons, stuff, 4 wheel trailer, Supra MK1V (Toronto - New Brunswick) |
|
|
| dbvolfan |
We seriously considered the 4-runner and Pathfinder specifically for towing reasons but in the end decided against it, mainly b/c my towing needs can be met by the Pilot 95% of the time and:
1. The 3rd row of the 4-runner has about the same leg room as the Pilot ('05) but at 6' tall my head was smashed up against the headliner. In the Pilot it doesn't come close.
2. Both the Nissan and the 4-Runner drove more trucklike IMO, especially the Pathfinder.
3. Pathfinder gas mileage is horrific, especially with the new V8 from the old Armada.
4. Pathfinder reliability is spotty. Like some domestic cars, you have people who swear by them and get 200k miles but on average they have far more problems than the Pilot and 4-runner.
I just finished towing a 2.5k lb. trailer 600 miles at 75mph through hilly terrain with no issues. The Pilot tracked just fine and gas mileage was surprisingly good compared to when I am not towing anything.
Just my .02 worth |
|
|
| rocky |
The OP just wrapped up a trip with this load behind a Kia Sorrento. That Kia has in the EEC higher towing rates than in the USA
Max. towing weights (kg): 2.5stick/Auto/ V6auto
Trailer with brakes 3,000 3,500 2,800
Trailer without brakes 750 750 750
1KG = 2.2lbs
The Uj wear is nothing to do with the load.
I say that if he likes the Pilot better for everyday usage then go with the Pilot over the 4 runner. Perhaps he'll go for the KIA since he's had good experience.
Now if I was in his position, I'd be looking very closely at the 09 Pilot v Flex. I just can't get used to the Pilot's styyling and the Flex looks phenomenal. |
|
|
| CHADC880 |
Here is an artical from BoatingLife Nov/Dec 2008 Issues Page 59
Honda Pilot
For 2009, Honda completely redesigned the Pilot, adding a little more cabin volume, legroom, horsepower and torque. The result is a family-size package that's leaner and more agile than the current crop of supersize SUVs. The all-wheel-drive model we drove now provides a 4,500-pound towing capacity, along with a heavy-duty cooling package, larger wheels and an integrated hitch. There's also an available backup camera. The gutsy 250 hp, 3.5-liter V-6 was able to drop a gear and bring a 4,000-pound load up some pretty steep Ozark hills without undue strain, and the brakes and suspension were also up to the task. Under lighter loads, the engine operates on three or four cylinders to boost mileage, and it thrives on regular-grade gasoline.
Driving the Pilot with or without a boat showcases Honda's attention to interior ergonomics. Depending on the model, driver and passengers can enjoy a wealth of creature comforts — three-zone climate control, a 512-watt sound and entertainment system, voice-recognition navigation software and 12-volt and 115-volt power outlets for additional gadgets.
From the driver's perspective, we felt that the standout feature wasn't simply the wealth of conveniences, but the way in which the console and controls allowed us to operate these features without losing focus on the primary task of staying on the road.
Spec-O-Meter
MSRP(base): $27,595
Price as Tested: $40,630
Engine Tested: 250 HP, 3.5 liter V-6
Transmission: 5-speed automatic
Rated Towing Capacity: 4,500 lb.
Curb Weight: 4,506lb.
Seating Capacity: 8
EPA Ratings: 16/22(4WD) |
|
|
| citivas |
quote:
Originally posted by rocky
Now if I was in his position, I'd be looking very closely at the 09 Pilot v Flex. I just can't get used to the Pilot's styyling and the Flex looks phenomenal. [/B]
Like the new Pilot, the Flex's styling usually gets strong opinions in both directions. I considered the Flex and showed it to a varieity of people I know to get their take. 75% of them HATED the styling. Not just didn't like, but HATED. They called it all kids of names and have sour faces the moment they saw it. The other 25% LOVED it, not just liked but loved... Interesting, those that loved the Felx were more inclined to strongly dislike the Pilot. Some of those that hated the Flex thought the Pilot's "classic SUV" look was the best in class... Personally I liked the styling of the flex exterior better than the Pilot, but there were too many other trade-offs for me. BTW, another feature I loved on the Flex was that the first rom passenger seat folds flat too, giving you a very long storage space from front to back if you need it. It is a truly interesting car.
I really didn't like that it sat lower to the ground though. That was a big issue for me. I don't "off-road" recreationally but I have already had to drive the Pilot on bumpy, uneven dirt roads and I wouldn't have flet comfortable doing that in the Flex. I'd also worry about getting a Flex right now. Its not clear the model will thrive and Ford will likely be cutting the cord on a variety of models early as they deal with their future. If they don't reeive massive taxpayer-funded life support, they will have to radically scale back. Maybe the Flex will be a part of that, but it doesn't seem certain yet. |
|
|
|
